Installing linux on a virtual machine can be a fun thing to learn to do, and linux is a fine environment for python programming, but there is nothing in your post to indicate you have any need to do this.

Thank you Allen. I'll just keep on trucking with the basics.

Probably because it is the modern day COBOL...

what does that mean? nobody is going to use Java in 20 years?

COBOL is still used all over the place

Great, so what does the comment mean?

I'm not sure about the COBOL comment, but Java creates the illusion of being easy to learn and gained a huge foothold in enterprise. For all the faults of the language itself, the JVM is fast. So you had the combination of "competitive with C for speed" and "much easier to program in," and probably a few other historical accidents / feats of marketing, and that's how things got to the state prompting your question.

EDIT: oh and let's not forget the current market pressure of Android, which is written in Java

It's a joke, lighten up Clarence.

I think Java has a lot of features and related tools that make working with large code bases much easier.

It's also extremely mature: lots of people can read/write it, tools are mature, common patterns/problems are documented, libraries exist, it's relatively bug free, etc.

That's a powerful combination.

That being said, a lot of the features that make it powerful for large code bases are based around the idea of 'protecting the developer'. That gets annoying in certain contexts. The fact that Java is mature also means there are newer languages out there that are more programmer friendly and contain better support for concepts that weren't mainstream when Java was first introduced.

I think you have answered your own question. Anything that is popular enough to have a large following is also going to have a big group of haters.

Most people don't pick a language to work in. They decide on a project and usually there is a standard technology stack that goes along with that choice.

If you want to write an Android program, you're probably going to use Java. Sure there are other languages you could use for this, but many headaches you think you are avoiding by picking the language you like will manifest in other ways because you are using a non-standard approach.

while this is true to an extent, much of the java hate is specially rabid and, imo, often well-deserved. even C, with its much higher level of difficulty and still greater popularity (at least according to langpop.com) doesn't seem to draw the same ridicule. and while you may hear individual gripes about, eg, python, which is popular now, you rarely hear people calling it "terrible." even detractors usually admit that it's at least "decent." so you can't write off the widespread java hate as an inevitable consequence having a large following imo.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. However I still think I'm a little far behind in terms of employability.

Once I finish the datastructures class, I should have an AS degree in computer science. Hopefully that will be enough to land a gig with an AS degree with an unrelated BA.

learn to crawl before you worry about running. It's a mistake I often make and am trying sorely not to repeat atm.

This is literally exactly what I picture in my head. Although, it's more of a European market where she might be wearing a head scarf and trying to pay for something in a currency called "kopecs" or something.

WRT my previous issue in Java, I finally watched the unassigned next Joy of Code and he described, in great detail, exactly how to do what I had wanted to do in my final class project. Well, basically exactly. More refined and something that makes more sense.

I am very shocked this was not part of the course. It seems like something that's so important to anyone learning Object-oriented programming that I can't figure out why they'd skip it (passing and storing references to other objects). I mean, even though it wasn't on the final itself, we still took time to learn arrays.

Haggling update:

Just saved $200 off a new laptop by being open to haggling and walking away. They literally grabbed us walking out the door and told us they'd do the deal.

Sick life

Nice... Where at?

what does that comment mean? who's Clarence?

thanks for the answers. i'm not a programmer and don't know any Java, i was just curious where the hate came from.

i guess the only other language i've noticed get as much ridicule is PHP, but for that people usually explain pretty quickly why it's designed poorly. with Java i'd never seen any explanation before now.

Doh, I got the quote wrong...

Just bought a book called Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation

I'm still not caught up on the edx Python class, but still I'm gonna try to soldier through this one just because I have alot of free time on my hands.

Why do you want to learn a Lisp so much?

Promised I wouldn't spread the word about who dunnit, but it was a retail store that sells Macs and price matches their discount for the educationally inclined.

Depending on where you live that can be about one of two places.

PM box always open if folks want more details

I don't know. I guess it's a pretty cool language. Plus, I'm just starting out this programming journey, so I don't want to limit myself in what areas I could end up in. Apparently Lisp is powerful for Artificial Intelligence programming, so who knows if I will meander down that path sometime, and need an understanding of Lisp.

To be quite honest, I really just have a lot of time on my hands.

Lisp <> AI Language!
Prolog <> AI Language!
Python <> AI Language!

... even though all of the above are / were often used for AI. Now days, I'm pretty sure Python is the AI language of choice.

Lisp is a very cool language, but it takes considerably more dedication to learning it than other languages. There's good and bad points about being tagged a Lisper. I personally think it is worth the effort, though plenty will disagree with me for valid reasons.

If you want a fun book on Lisp and AI in general, check out Land of Lisp.

Cool dave! Thanks, Ill check that book out!

daveT, are you going to update your annual progress thread?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...mming-1217346/