yeah, candybar, that is good advice too, as usual

Was reading the Robert Half 2014 Technology Salary Guide which was pretty interesting, but the most interesting part for me were the local variances. e.g. Salaries 41% higher in NYC, 30% lower in El Paso. This year I moved from working in the office in the NYC area to working remote from El Paso so really that could've justified asking me to take a 50% pay cut.

I hate reading average salaries. Im from Chicago and I have a bunch of friends doing various development jobs at various companies and no one is making near the ranges they say in things like that. Are we just all getting ****ed? I find it hard to believe anyone is paying non senior Java devs 85k+ for example.

You might be getting kinda ****ed, tbh. But it depends on what your definition of ****ed is. One of my friends found out he was making 80k and a co-worker equal was making 70k. The other guy was surprised, and kinda tried to ask for a raise and didn't get it. My friend left and is now making 90-100k and his friend is still at 70k, and fwiw they are pretty close to equals, but that dude doesn't have as good of social skills. His manager when he left did make an underhand comment about how he "won't get that much at his next job after this one is leaving for". but that guy was probably just being a douche.

Categories are terrible because generic HR people have no idea how technology job markets are segmented but these numbers look reasonable from my perspective (NYC).

I did a similar move to remote from NYC and they tried to cut my pay based on this logic. But you have to realize that if you're worth $X to the company - then you're worth $X to the company. Maybe they can make the argument that you're not going to be quite as productive while being remote, but what other people in your area are doing isn't really that relevant unless your company is going to try and hire your replacement as a remote worker from the same (or equivalent) area.

In the end they gave me my previous salary (mostly because it was a pretty good deal for them even at that rate).

Fair enough but I really more said "ballooned" because 1/2 through development I had a bunch more requirements dumped on me

No doubt, just saying sometimes there's no silver bullet beyond more practice and more trial and error.

I mean i know for a fact IM getting ****ed, but its my first full time gig, so Ill settle with it for a while. I have very talented friends who have been working 2 years+ making 60k in downtown Chicago.

I hate those situations where equals are making different amounts. A lot of the time it makes sense but its just so awkward. I know for a fact Im making the same amount as 4 other ppl in the same role. What I really dont like is the environment created where it will almost always be more profitable to leave the company than to stay for years on end. Itd be nice to never have to worry about interviews and stuff like that without leaving thousands a year on the table.

oh is it time for this again? i love banking free dinners from poasters itf:

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

So aside from being needlessly wordy, obviously this is a good article. However, he is giving logic to only support one side, and a lot of it really isnt true.

"Bob is spending Bob’s budget. Bob generally does not get large performance incentives for shaving money off of his hiring budget: you get a new Macbook if you convince Bob to give you $5k extra, but Bob gets (if he is anomalously lucky) a dinner at TGIFridays if he convinces you to take $5k less. In fact, there are many organizations (and Bobs) for whom power, status, and money come from asking for more budget every year. If you turn out to be on the expensive side, that is great for Bob, because a) he manages a high-powered peon so he must be a high-powered manager and b) this will help Bob get more budget next quarter."

The incentives part is pretty true, however the part about spending more budget on one person is entirely not true. At most companies (including mine) recruiting is judged on number of people they bring in each time period. Less money in the pool because you gave someone/a few people extra = less people hired over time.

Negotiation is always a good thing (and yes I am too wussy to do it, so Ill have to read this a few times and grow a pair for the next time around), but some of this is just silly "rah-rah you can do it! **** the corporations!"

Also thank you for the post, not trying to Dave all over you

wtf?

I agree but I think making the effort that gaming_mouse described is at least worth trying. Also one can learn a lot from reviewing other developers code.

Sorry just a joke! You like to dissect discussions and are assuredly better than I am at it as well

Oh, come on, I was deeply offended. Sometimes I need a good argument and you refuse to deliver? What has this world come to?

I cant even negotiate a salary and you think Ill offer a good argument?!

sure, but his rhetorical point is that there is a non-linear relationship between money in bob's budget and money in your pocket. besides, you're going to have to lowball a lot of chumps at $5k a pop to fit another hire into your budget.

Yet another xkcd comic defictionalized: now you have infinite problems

Salary negotiation is incredibly easy when you have the upper hand. In any negotiation the guy who has better options is the winner. So if you want more money you just need to have better options than the company does to replace you. It might require that you be less picky about who you work for or what kind of work you do. Or it might require that you are so specialized no one can easily replace you.

This sounds low for a decent developer. Unless your friend is really happy with the work/environment he should be out looking for a better spot.

This somewhat aligns with the point I was making about almost being forced into job hopping nowadays. But the question is, is there ever a point where you are changing jobs too much that it comes back to hurt your value?

Yes. When I start seeing gaps on a resume or a new job every < 2 years I start to get worried about personal issues popping up after they get hired. Chicago has been hard to find programming talent lately, my company has had open developer jobs for months and none of the recruiters are finding enough candidates. I'd say it's a pretty good programmer's market out there right now to shop your skills around and see what prices you can get.

As a preface, I am not an engineer, I just hang out here cause most everyone I speak with on a daily basis is, and im technical to a point (really good at using Google). But at my current position I renegotiated a new, substantially better deal after 7 months on the job.

I asked for a review, prepared my boss that I was thinking in terms of a new deal, etc. and it worked out very well for all of us.

Moving around a lot doesn't matter at all imo. Im 26 and on my 5th job since 2010. Im basically early 30's experience and compensation wise, just have to tell a good stoy as to why you move around.

And by tell a good story, it does actually have to make sense why you move around. If its legit, no one will think badly of you.

I can't even negotiate a job and that doesn't stop me.