I'm interested. And I still think Hacker School (https://www.hackerschool.com/) would be really cool, but I don't live near NY.

Also today I was able to boot a flash drive from one type of lab computer (classroom), but the majority of lab computers I am not sure how to. May not be able to. They seem to immediately boot to VMWare player, from whence you are forced to connect and log into the school server, before it loads Windows 7 at all.

Have you asked the head of the lab to set you up a linux VM? Worst he can do is tell you no.

I thought about this a bit, and I guess the best way to describe my confusion about why you always say "why do you like X when you spend so much time with Lisp" is precisely the reasons you stated, but now I realize that you were making this statement without knowing how I'd interpret it, so I should break it down now.

The Lisp that I learned was not some spectacular high-level language a'la Python, Clojure, or Common Lisp. SICP Scheme is does not have anything built-in, which is why it is a language you can learn in 10 minutes. There really is only:

()
define
lambda
let
if
or
and
else
car
cdr
'()
display
"
#t
#f
set! -- which isn't taught until chapter 3 when they decide to go over OO concepts.

And that is basically the entire language. Think about all of the things that aren't included: map, for, do, while, filter, set([]), loop. Need (random) for that Monte Carlo simulation? Go write it myself (to be sure, I did find a random code somewhere)! The Lisp I am familiar with is very low level, and even more low-level than C as far as I can tell. Is it more or less expressive? I can't really answer that at this point, but I suspect there are tradeoffs here and there.

Simple example: Look at a "table" in scheme, which correlates to a "hash map": http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-te...ml#%_sec_3.3.3

The idea of using this Lisp, in a nutshell, was to think about how to create the things that I need to get things done. The idea that I can just search around and find some data-structure or built-in function didn't exist. If I wanted it, I had to build it. The basic idea was to build up self-serving systems that are a combination of abstractions and code-reuse. The Lisp I learned was meant for teaching. While I could build a larger system with it, I'd be absolutely nuts to do so.

This idea, in balance, is a double-edged sword. I still to this day never think about "What does the language have built-in that lets me do this quickly." It is more like "Oh, ****, how do make that happen?" then go off and roll my own only to discover something much better -- and shorter -- exists. The idea is to have some apparent "George" build it an not worry about the details, but I'm still not used to figuring out what George built or did.

This real reward of thinking like this is that I can look at a data structure and think about what is happening there and I can think about how to use it in other odd ways. The most obvious is turning a vector into a queue or building a stack. Grant it, these aren't always useful, but the idea is to think about what happens when I do (function (function x y)) and not only understanding what that means, but understanding what happens and understanding what combinations may work better. This mindset helps immensely when working with SQL even if I don't really understand the underpinnings of it. I have the tools to ask "How can I build this so that if I need to change it, it won't cause a total rewrite?" or I can state confidently why I should chose a map here and a list there, or why a string is better than a list. I may be wrong, but at least I understand the reasoning for doing so before going further and I can at least ponder the future without guessing and getting stuck 300 LOC later, and that foresight is invaluable.

The thing I find fascinating about C is how many languages are built on top of it. There is something to be said about a language when Postgre, Ruby, Python, Linux, [how long is this list?] are all written on top of it. I know that the argument can easily get to "If C was proficient, no one would bother creating those other languages," and that is a very solid argument and one that I wouldn't want to dispute.

I'm also enjoying C because it forces me to rethink how I approach coding. I can't live in a functional programming La La Land all my life. The fact that there is no fall-back to FP-land at all really forces me to rethink my conceptions. That, more than anything, is invaluable. I really hate learning new languages and I want think that anything I learn that is new will show me some perspective that I didn't have before.

In regards to me being a poor systems designer... well, duh. I'm keenly aware of my limitations. It doesn't have any relevance to learning C at this point.

I also find it odd that you are so good at these security games, where you're reading obfuscated code and running XOR's over bit operations, yet you seem dismissive of all that can be gained from learning C and similar low-level languages. What better way is to learn about 64-bit to binary conversions?

Maybe you can look into OpenGL. Definitely not an expert on this stuff, but you may want to take a look at https://www.edx.org/courses/Berkeley...3_Spring/about which is running now, but that may not be what you are looking for since it requires some linear algebra and C++ programming.

If you want to do it the Gimp / Photoshop way, I guess you'd want to break your image into layers, do fading on the background, sharpen the foreground, add some lighting effects, and you have a decent 3d-type photograph.

If you are asking for something like http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...e_3d_or_not_3d, then you can copy / paste two new layers, do some color-filtering and move them about until they pop out when you wear 3d glasses.

Wish there was more I can say here but you're question is pretty ambiguous. If you need help with manipulating images with PS or Gimp, I can certainly offer you some pointers on what to do and walk you through some of the concepts you aren't familiar with. These are incredibly complicated programs but with some practice and me spoon-feeding you some info, I could get you on your way. Just don't expect anything beautiful to pop up until you screw up a million times.

Magically worked this morning

Aaaand done with bandit

On to the next one tonight.

That's a good point. The only reason I haven't done it already is that it's American high school. In some ways it feels like students are trusted as much as inmates. We have teachers babysitting us every moment we're in the building, so I don't even know the guy behind all the IT. But I could find out and explain my situation to him, and if he scoffs and tells me to get to class, whatever.

fyp.

good suggestion, kerowo! if only someone had suggested this to op three months ago...

as usual dave, how much you care makes me want to respond in kind....

Two points here:

1. Even in scheme, you have the basic tools to think in an object-oriented way if you want to. Now of course, *technically* you can do so in C also -- by essentially rolling your own support for objects -- but I find this to be a silly argument so I'll ignore it. C is built for procedural programming.

2. In Clojure, you have plenty of library niceties like you do in ruby. For example, I found this page which maps the common Enumerable and Array methods between the two languages. So yeah my comments would apply more to Lisp dialects that have good, easy to search (ie, google) library support.

I think you answered both your points here. Those languages are built on C because you need speed and low-level access to build that kind of language. The way I see it, you must tolerate C to build certain kinds of things. That doesn't mean you wouldn't much rather use a higher level language if you could somehow magically achieve the same results with one.


to be clear, i think learning C is great, and didn't mean suggest it wasn't worthwhile. in fact, i wouldn't mind refreshing my own C at some point. i also think it's cool that you find it fun. my issue is with thinking that it's a great language. or more specifically: not seeing why it is so different from python, ruby, clojure, etc, and why those other languages are so much better for building things. even more specifically: if the only differences you see between C and the higher level languages are some syntactic niceties and better libraries, it suggests you might be coding with them in a procedural style, and hence not appreciating the kind of design they are built to support.

On this point I disagree. Continuing the point I made at the end of the last paragraph, C will teach you plenty of bad procedural habits that you might carry over into the high-level languages.

Again, not dismissive. Plenty of good stuff to learn, and you should. Also I wouldn't say I am "so good" at them. I think I'm competent and it's an area I'd like to improve at.

I think all of the above much better reflects my real feelings. I guess all the subtleties don't come through with "lol C"

I didn't use so many code words.

Anyone here good with java that could help me out with some basic stuff?

Can pay but it won't be alot.

PM me if so!

Had some oh so sweet uninterrupted time today at work and refactored like a madman. Removed maybe 100 LOC, pretty happy about it

When you have something that *just doesn't work*: rip everything out, simplify, keep simplifying until it kind of works. Then add back in to find the problem. The feedback from making changes to a working system is infinitely more valuable than dabbling around with something that doesn't work at all where it continues to not work after each small change.

I relearn this lesson all the time. Like today.

Anyone seen screencasts like these about coding:

https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/screencasts

Opinions?

I like to combine this approach with TDD. I don't use TDD very much but whenever I have a problem with a bunch of edge cases that has already given me some pain I generally switch to it so that as I'm adding stuff back in I don't end up with more broken crap.

Typical job ad:

"Seeking Entry Level HTML Developer and Marketer"

Hello, we are seeking an entry-level marketer and HTML programmer with at least 2 years of experience dealing with client-side jQuery, WordPress, Magento, or Drupal to create a secure, custom, customer-focused mobile-friendly site with advance UI capabilities enhanced with current and proven White Hat SEO practices.

While not completely required, the ideal candidate will be familiar with:

-- PHP
-- Ruby
-- Asp.NET
-- ColdFusion and / or Java Applets
-- Current development practices
-- Photoshop
-- Notepad++
-- Dreamweaver

The candidate will be responsible for creating effective copy, email marketing campaigns, and maintaining our social media presence. The ideal candidate will have a proven track record maintaining a Pintarest, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Digg, Tumbl'r, and Blogger presence.

The ideal candidate will be familiar with BrainTree software and Oracle SQL to help us retrieve customer sales history.

The marketing side of the job will require writing effective copy for our website, magazine articles, and email campaigns. He or she will give presentations, write company memos, and write meeting minutes. To be effective, the candidate should be familiar with Microsoft Office, Creating colorful charts in Excel, and building effective PowerPoint presentations.

Please respond with a cover letter that describes what you can bring to the table and links to 3 websites describing in detail your involvement, and at least 2 writing samples and any links to recently published writing.

-- $12/hr or DOE.

****

I wonder if I could make money writing reasonable job ads for these places. (The above isn't an actual job-ad. I wrote it. After reading so many of them, I think I have the voice down pretty good, huh?)

This is a really post. I tried to write a response last night and failed miserably.

This is the take I see you going with: You believe a good programming language allows you to build up on the pieces, and if you aren't satisfied with the tools, you can build more on top of it. I agree with this. Composibility is certainly a good thing.

Maybe I'm too over-spoiled by lisp and I simply don't see what the big deal is about it, but I will say that there are certainly things that you wouldn't want to do with it. The hard-core OO concepts come to mind, like multiple inheritance and class definitions. You *could* do it, but why would you?

My question is this:

I know that people generally believe CSS is an awful language. So why hasn't anyone bothered to solve the issue?

For example, you can create a Python -> CSS processor. Add in a graphical color-picker and boom you are done. I don't see how creating such a program would beyond the capabilities of some of the programming gurus on the web. Hell, I could whip up a working prototype in an afternoon.

The question is: would anyone even use such a product?

I'm not sure what that link is. Is it a Ruby -> Clojure interpreter or is it just how to encode Ruby stuff with Clojure code?

SASS, LESS of course. But also many many tools that try to put a nice frontend on it. Recently featured on HN, which looks pretty nice:

http://playground.webflow.com/?s=hn

But the deeper answer to your question is because it's really hard to change an entrenched culture. The roots of HTML/CSS go back a long way now. You'd need a major browser vendor to start supporting "alternative CSS," and then people would start to have using it. It would probably need an error free way to auto convert to normal CSS to back support older browsers, sort of like coffee script to js. Eventually maybe something like this will happen, but it's not easy. Think about Google Wave ("what email would be if it were invented today") and how that failed. I mean, ****, people are just really used to email at this point.


see link above. i think the answer is a resounding yes, if it's done well.

it was just showing equivalent method names for common array and enumerable methods between ruby and clojure. it was just my way of saying hey look, clojure seems to have decent library support for stuff, since you had said how bare bones scheme was.

Clojure is a huge huge language. It was quite shocking, and still is, coming from Scheme.

http://clojure.org/cheatsheet


That CSS tool looks really awesome. I signed up.

Looking at the Ruby link. These two items bother me:


REPL started; server listening on localhost...
compojure.core=> (def c 1 2 3 4 5)
CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Too many arguments to def, compilingNO_SOURCE_PATH:27)
compojure.core=> (max 1 2 3 4 6 3 2)
6
compojure.core=> (apply max [1 3 2 8 5 4])
8

compojure.core=> (def a [1 4 2 9 6])
#'compojure.core/a
compojure.core=> a
[1 4 2 9 6]
compojure.core=> (apply max a)
9

compojure.core=> (def a '(1 4 2 9 6))
#'compojure.core/a
compojure.core=> a
(1 4 2 9 6)
compojure.core=> (apply max a)
9

compojure.core=> (def a #{1 4 2 9 6})
#'compojure.core/a
compojure.core=> a
#{1 2 4 6 9}
compojure.core=> (apply max a)
9

To make it clear:

compojure.core=> (seq a)
(1 2 4 6 9)
compojure.core=> (def b (seq a))
#'compojure.core/b
compojure.core=> b
(1 2 4 6 9)
compojure.core=> (apply max b)
9

Finally finished

http://www.overthewire.org/wargames/natas/

Well, almost. I didn't get the final level and had to lookup hints. It's pretty hard and used some commands I didn't about so I never would have been able to get it otherwise. The last 4-5 levels are pretty interesting. If you already know about this stuff, I'd recommend looking up the password to 10 or 11 and starting there.

I started natas yesterday but was too tired. I'm at the first level that requires coding..level 8 I think (guess command line would work as well played around with it using base64, rev, xxd for 1 minute and went to bed)
Plan on working on it today

Did level8 and gave up after a bit on level9. I got as far as listing the content of .htaccess and .htpasswd but not sure what to do with it. Will think about it tomorrow, got some stuff to do.

gaming_mouse: How did you do level 4 (referer). I actually did that one via telnet and felt very proud about it :P
(easy solution is some browser plugin ldo)

curl --referer. curl command line in general is really useful for this game, as well as lots of real life stuff like testing APIs. if you don't already use it, check it out. takes about 5-10 mins to learn

This is fun. I'm hooked.