Because I have feelings of anger and hostility for those deemed as mean.

I can proclaim many things. Though the thought which is getting your panties bunched up is hardly unique to me. Its a logical conclusion of someone who thinks that without their God their would be no morality.

If you don't like my comments or similar comments made by others in this forum I suggest you go elsewhere. Since this forum is precisely themed for people like myself to respond as I see fit to certain topics.

If you want to spout your own brand of foolishness it will is equally allowed and others are free to agree or disagree.

But I say again... the thought I expressed is far from original and more common here then you probably realize.

Kurto, wouldn't you agree that theists only 'think' that they'd become serial killers? Maybe some would, but the majority would settle down after the reality settled in that life on earth really doesn't change much whether there is, or isn't, a god. Most (I think) would remain every bit as moral and civil as they were before.

Well obvious I think their view has no bearing on reality and is just a reflection of them deciding what their position is then sticking their heads in the sand.

I choose to beleive that they are all wrong in their convictions and not really expressing a truth that they even believe deep down in their hearts.

Though there have been some who have said the same kind of thing with such conviction that I can only conclude that are definitely restraining themselves from SOME perceived evil. Though perhaps it wouldn't be as dramatic as serial killing. (aaaah.... I can finally pursue my dream of impregnating the Delta Delta Delta class of 2008)

where do you live? kansas?

you are confusing people who are religious with the historical tyranny of organized religion. you have more depth of character than that, right?

pshaawww... i changed my mind. nope, you are not a wizard of human psychology. just more or less a bitter bitter person who chooses to rail against what they percieve as thier enemy. you should see someone for that. maybe a psychologist.

what is this in reference to?

just think how paranoid kurto gets when he sees Bush praying?

I'm not gonna lie to ya. I get worried too when I hear about the Commander in Chief of the most powerful military force on the planet kneeling down and talking to an imaginary friend. That IS scary.

You hit on a key point: Most believers don't believe what they say they do. Nowhere is this more evident than by the common reaction to a loved one's death. If they really believed what they say they do, they would leap with unbounded joy and exhilaration upon learning of a loved one's death. Instead, they mourn. There are countless other examples, but this is the one that strikes me as the most telling.

You keep attacking me without challenging in any meaningful way anything I said. We expect a little more in this forum. Please try to contribute in a meaningful way.

How about this; there are a large number of atheists on this forum and throughout the world. By our actions, we are virtually indistinguishable from theists. Though we don't believe in invisible overlords who will send us to hell for our missteps, we don't rape, kill, steal, etc. We are horrified at things that we would call morally repugnant.

So when a theist comes along and claims that they believe without a God there would be no morality, we are a little repulsed and afraid. Because the implication is that their morality would not exist if they didn't believe in said God. And therefore they would act and think differently.

Instead of being a childish boy who has nothing to add to this forum them your insults, you are free to attack the meat of what I posted. And explain why we atheists, who don't believe in Gods, don't have morals. Explain why atheists aren't characterized as immoral killers. And finally, exactly what part of my post above you think requires me to seek counseling.

Or just carry on like a petulant boy. I don't really care much which route you choose.

Well... I think when a lot of people mourn, they're mourning that they will miss their company.

Even if I think a friend moves on to a better job in another state, I'll still mourn there loss in my life.

How scary would it be if it was someone like Hitler or Stalin who don't think human life is any better than cockroach life?

Way too simplistic. When I first heard my mother was dead I felt an extreme jolt of pure joy that lasted about 5 seconds. For the next 6 months I could hardly stop crying. Clearly, my joy was for her entrance into heaven, my sadness was for my loss. I'm a selfish bug.

Edit:

Look at the case of Lazarus:

John 11:
32Therefore, when Mary came where Jesus was, she saw Him, and fell at His feet, saying to Him, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died."
33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled,
34and said, "Where have you laid him?" They said to Him, "Lord, come and see."
35Jesus wept.
36So the Jews were saying, "See how He loved him!"
37But some of them said, "Could not this man, who opened the eyes of the blind man, have kept this man also from dying?"

Jesus knew He was about to raise Lazarus so His sorrow could not have been for Lazarus or for His own loss. I think He wept over the fact of death. At any rate, it isn't hypocritical to weep over the death of a loved one.

Think of it this way: A newborn doesn't display any of the characteristics of the image of God but we believe he has them all - he just hasn't learned to exercise and express them yet. For the ******ed and/or injured they are the same - they have the image but since there is a mind/brain connection and the brain part isn't working correctly it's harder to see, in some cases maybe even impossible - but they're still human. And we all have been damaged by original sin - the image of God in man is still present in all humans but is also universally damaged.

I won't lie about that either. That's 'almost' as scary. The reason it's not quite as scary is because there's no chance they will act on the advice of god. So one less way of committing atrocities. But I will agree. Delusion is delusion and it gets scary when a world leader suffers from it.

But do you cry for days?

My bro took a job in another state and moved his family. I have no idea when I'll see them again. At his going away party, no one cried (not even my mother). On the contrary, everyone was really happy for his family. My point is that everyone reacted much differently than would have if his whole family were killed in a fiery crash. There's a reason for that.

I mostly avoid politics, religion is stressful enough. But I don't like political "Christians" who relate their actions in office directly with God. If they pray, read the Bible, go to church, great. But if they tie their job to direct communication with God, I worry - not as much as I would under Hitler, but enough. I thought Bush was somewhat less than that - it was never clear that he thought God was speaking directly to him. But he should have been clear about it. And I wouldn't necessarily exclude voting for an atheist - I could take another Lincoln, for instance.

How selfish? Can you honestly say that if a group of your loved ones moved to another state and it was only a matter of time before you'd see them again... Would you really treat that the same as the loss of your mother or if they all had died a sudden death in a traffic accident?

If you say yes, then you're consistent and I'll take you at your word. But if you say no, than I'd like you to explain why.

Just about everyone has invested in the question of morality at some point or another. People need an explanation for all the ****ty things that happen. Hence many people turn to God. But, after you take God out of the picture... that investment into morality doesn't go away. One's concept of morality might alter, but I doubt very much that it'd simply vanish.

I don't mock or belittle people in my daily life. Once we get into "the Christians" or "the Muslims," I respond differently. This isn't rational, but it's how my feelings work.

It's not even close to the same. Not even close. Did you read the Lazarus passage?

The whole world shifted when she died. My whole life to that point in some way or other was referenced by her. If she had just moved, that would not have changed. Read Lewis' A Grief Observed which he wrote after his wife died.

This is a little weird coming from you. Obviously rationality does not always override our emotions, as you admitted about yourself and your sympathy/empathy. It's not like a Christian can just out and out choose not to be sad when a loved one passes on. I think that the idea that their loved ones have gone to a better place is often a strong consoling force to help cope with the emotional pain of the loss.

more paranoid ranting and personal attacks.

(yawn)

dont worry. one day you will grow up. cheers!

If I honestly and truly believed that the death of a loved one meant that they were in the most extreme state of possible bliss imaginable, I would jump for joy. Sure, I might have a moment or two of sadness over my own (temporary) loss, but nothing more. This is NOT the way 99.99% of believers act.