I started on this thought experiment and got stuck. Any thoughts?

If you were to input information into a computer using light, sound, feeling, taste and smell which triggered the computers databank of memories, of past experiences and of a massive number of previously learned concepts, which in turn triggered emotions and thoughts which triggered more memories etc., the resulting actions a suitable length of time after the initial input would seem largely random and independent of the initial input, but would it resemble considered and reasonably decided human action? If not what other qualities does the computer need.

Ive got my own answers and further thoughts about this but this seems like a point where opinions could branch out.

Are you asking what behaviors could a computer do that would make me think of it as human like? I think that's what you mean but am not sure.

Sorry no, the point was to try to isolate what qualities/aspects of the human brain give us free will if there is such a thing. So is it possible for the computer to have free will, if yes what does it need to have it, if no what does the brain have that the computer does not. Hope this makes sense, I'm having trouble focusing my thoughts but explaining this is helping.

I think it has to know it's a computer but want to be considered a human. only then maybe I'd consider being friends with one.

So do you mean physical things about the brain? Sorry for not getting it, there are a lot of ways this thread could go so I'm trying to make sure I speculate about the right question.

No, I mean abilities rather than the hardware that gives us those abilities. For instance qualities such as the ability to limit the number of thoughts stimulated by a certain memory and focus on other trains of thought (assuming we have this ability).

Whoa, lets start with the basics, before you even think about teaching a computer the difference between itself and a human it would have to be able to "know" things.

OP, you're approaching topic kind of awkwardly. The metaphysical discussion about free will (what is free will/does it exist) doesn't have much to do with computers or even qualities/aspects of the human brain. Do you intend to lead us eventually to a metaphysical claim about free will or are you asking about specific computational/cognitive science theories of decision making?

Cool discussion about computers and free will

Check it out, it's very interesting

Well the sense in which we have free will, is that we have the sensation of free will which often induces the belief that we have free will. We could program a computer to believe it has free will, we could even program a computer to mirror the way humans believe they have free will.

All it needs is a big enough computer and sufficiently competent programmers. We would also need psychologists and neurologists to determine the way our minds work if we are going for a program that believes in free will in the same reasons that humans often do.

it would need qualities that would allow the computer to make incorrect decisions and learn from them to make correct ones in the future. it would also require sophisticated programming that would never need updates; its updates would basically be self-updates acquired over time on its own and I doubt we've done more than scratch the surface of making this possible.

ok then.

first quality I think it has to be stupid.

then maybe a little emotional. perhaps randomly or every 28 days ?

I think you'll have to achieve those two if you want decisions resembling those of humans

It needs to be able to feel emotion.

Where is my prize?

Computers by definition can't really ever have free will in our current understanding of human beings and mechanics (this might change in the future). The reason being, if you had a pen and paper, knew how the computer program worked, the set of inputs, with 100% certainty you could know the outcome of the program.

You can probably simulate free will relatively convincingly but this doesn't take from the fact that the computer is a slave to it's programmed function and you can always predict what it's outputs are.

Feeling emotion is the same interesting area, I don't think with current technology it's possible to make a computer feel emotion, you can make it simulate emotion and exhibit emotional tendencies but is it actually feeling it? Like some animals, if you pull their legs off, they exhibit motions of a painful experience, but do all animals (like ants) have the capacity to actually feel the pain, or are they just showing they are in pain? If you pull a lead off a tree, it will wither and die, but did that leaf feel pain? No because it doesn't have the capacity to, and neither do modern day computers.

Computers already have free will.

I enjoyed this read. thanks for posting

Ah, my favorite part of these threads. When madnak comes in and makes everyone else feel like they've started ingesting crazy pills.

The ability to make decision contrary to it's programming without that decision being random?

Whoa now, even you have never gone so far as to define free will as going against one's programming.

When has a human ever done this? I thought you believed that there is no real "programming" for some human decisions. So, wouldn't that be an acceptable criterion for computers, according to your view?

Wow, I must have strong frame-fu. It used to be that I'd make everyone else feel like I've started ingesting crazy pills.

Well, I don't know that our "programming" is the same as a computers. But I would say that people do this all the time. But I think that might be a different conversation.

My point being is that how can we ever say that a computer exhibits free will if it is only doing what we programmed it to do?

and the wheels on the bus go round and round


round and round


round and round

meh, one could argue that free-will is an illusion just like present, past and future. do we, humans, really have free will when everything that we've done and that we'll do has already happened if you look at it from above the time dimension? essentially we too are kind of programed, we just don't know about it so why should a human computer be any different?

Who said present, past, and future are an illusion?

If we programmed it to make choices, then it's making choices.