Not really sure how to phrase this question properly.

Over the course of ones life is it beneficial to play poker? Is it +Ev?

If you enjoy playing poker and it doesn't take over your life, sure it can be good to play as a hobby. But is it a good way to spend your time? What do you gain from playing poker? A certain, very specific skill set that will not apply to most areas of life? Would it not be better to develop your social skills etc?

Is it even +EV to play for monetary reasons, if you spend the time used to play poker to further educate yourself and hence have greater earning potential?

I am not that good at poker, obviously (see above), but I know that I can get good. I have been taking it pretty seriously for about 6 months and I might put in a lot of work this summer. I am thinking though that there is so much information out there, important stuff, that it might be a waste of my time to play/study poker. I could learn about the human body for example in great depth or I can develop my post flop game. Life vs cards.

Basically I don't want to look back in 10 or so years and say "Sure I've had some good experiences, this one time I was sitting at my computer, alone, playing poker when I........".

very +ev

used to have to go to work

meh, get an office job working 8:30 - 5:30 plus commute working with people you can't stand for 6 months then come back an tell me if poker is +EV or not. Never let it take over your life but if you're good at it it's a damn sight better than a lot of things you could be doing.

i think it is totally unimportant. poker will never be a fulfilling thing long term, but if you are good at it, it can give you a lot of freedom to do other things. my advice is first get good at it, then decide if it something you want to do in the long term

and after years of thinking nothing worse can happen at work than the HR department you get invaded by quality morons.

I wonder if there's a correlation between believing in god and working in Quality Assurance?

it is if you dont suck at it.

sure why not?

$$$ what do you get from any job?

and this differs from other jobs how?

is there some reason you cant play cards and do this also? (and many more things too.) its not like you have to choose between cards or social skills, or anything else.

any job youre in you can ask this question. besides, what is more fair than poker in determining both how much you make, and how often you get promoted (move to higher stakes.) also, a small stakes grinder can easily make $100/hr. i dont see that anywhere in the business world.

...as for the rest of your post about whether you should get serious about it or not. you shouldnt. there.

You can't help yourself, can you?

Shieler, you said it yourself, if you enjoy poker and it doesn't take over your life, it's all good...

If you're really wanting to learn everything there is about the human body, but poker keeps sucking you down, then there might be some other issue to deal with. But, of itself, I think you have a good perspective on it.

Not really. The EV +goes down exponentially as time goes. There are much fewer fish now than in the past, and there will be yet fewer fish several years later, to the point that it is very hard to be profitable.

too close?

Yeah I can help myself but pointing out the stupidity of QA departments is important work. After all folk worry about the danger of religous loonies but its QA that does the real damage.

If the poker market was not being interfered with tremendously, this would not be true. Just look at the WSOP main event field as a function of freedom and government interference.

This

there is no way you can say this with any authority. the poker markets in asia and russia are expanding quickly which will have a great effect on poker over the next few years. i think there is a very real possibility that poker could experience a second boom sometime in next few years with international markets

Its just as easy if not easier to be profitable these days though it may be harder to make an easy fortune.

rofl

Even if there are fewer fish, you can make more money playing poker. Poker skill has not been tapped, not nearly. Who cares if the fish get better if you get even better. You just have to be outstanding to make the most out of poker.

I guess a fish is only a fish relative to your skill level. A mediocre player becomes an outstanding player when faced against Hollywood guppies. It's all about creating the right match-ups.

That's not really correct. The extra skill operates at the smaller edges so a mediocre player earns far more from a megafish than a decent player from a mediocre player, and so on.

The games have got worse in that respect because the proportion of mega-fish has dropped.

but by far the biggest winner is the rake and these days a pro (even mediocre ones) can pay far less rake. That makes it far easier to make a profit and if the USA ever gets it act togther it could be fantastic.

Yeah, you're right about that. A large part of the money is made with the mega fish. Even if you play as good as humanly possible, you're still not going to do as well if you're playing someone who dumps a rack an hour (or more). An extremely good player against mediocre wouldn't do as well as an expert against mega fish.

The games have dried some, but still very beatable. Lol at anyone who thinks that poker is going completely dry.

You mean increased competition between pokersites could drive the rake down?

And what do you mean "even mediocre ones"; what are you saying about the relationship between rake and skill-level.

Yes

I should have said 'especially mediocre ones' as they play lower stakes and proportionally higher rake.

Agreed.


Yes; that's what I thought didn't make sense.

I don't think increased competition between poker sites will ever drive rake down much. In the end, a poker site's core business is attracting losing players. Attracting winning players is helpful to keep games running, but it's not enough in the end as the money has to come from somewhere. Losing players are not attracted by lower rake, because they don't notice the rake. Losing players are attracted by huge tournaments where they might strike it rich, by ease of use of the software and cashier facilities, etc etc. The only time when lower-rake competition arises is between sites on the same network, because in this case winning players are much more valuable, since they are high-volume players. The business of attracting fresh meat can be left to other sites on the network. This is why I have an under-the-counter 50% rakeback deal with an ipoker site (which is in contravention of the ipoker site licensing rules) but can't get a rakeback deal at Stars or Party.

Gambling is an odd business because the customers are by definition people who intend to make unprofitable choices with their money. Offering them slightly less unprofitable choices is not going to be a good way to compete; you want to offer them get-rich-quick schemes and glitz and glamour. Look at Vegas - the top casinos haven't made it big by offering bigger odds bets on craps, they do it by being luxurious, having big jackpots, putting on big shows etc etc.

Edit: Oh yeah, and while some of the seedier casinos in Vegas do compete for the niche "nit" market by offering huge odds bets on craps etc, that doesn't work for poker because of the difference between playing versus the house and other players. Nits don't want to play against other nits; that's why WSEX's zero rake experiment failed.

In a sense you're right but not where it matters for a pro. The rake doesn't come down because the fish don't care but massive incentives are offered to high volume players and that's where the pro benefits.

As the proportion of fish diminishes it becomes even more important for a succesful site to have a large number of regular players as we provide stability of income and keep a wide range of games going even at the quiet times - losing us means us going to a competitor which is a disaster. That's why the loyalty programs have become very good and that's effectively a reduction in rake for the pro.

If it's legalised in the US the massive influx of new fish may well disrupt the competitive benefits (but who cares ) but as it settles down market forces will force sites to compete for the high volume players again.

Edit: I think you're wrong as to why Wsex failed. The whole concept of zero rake is fatelly flawed except as a short term promotion.

i think poker is beneficial, and teaches good life skills such as finance managment, being frugal, makign +EV decisions.

Ever since i learned +EV, i dont make any decision without considering it. i can turn almost any decision into an EV equation in my head. from then on every decision ive made which affected me financially i've calculated long term ev, to determine if it wasa good decision or not. I believe this alone improved my life alot for the past years and for the future years. Also as a college student i can tell you its helped my math a bit as well, especially when it comes to statistics.

However, i think poker is harmful for your social skills. for example ive turned into a troll, who outcast himself from other people. i also lost gramatical and spellign skills.

The thing with poker is though that there are winners and losers, in order for someone to win, someone must lose. Therefore it is safe to assume that ~50% of people make money and ~50% of people lose money. What would happen if all losing players decided they'd had enough? In my opinion there will be fewer pros in the years to come as player standards increase.

Also there is a big difference between being a professional and playing for fun/pocket money. So if being a poker pro affords you some good chances, that is excellent. Most people on here aren't pros though. This is just a rough estimation, but an average player can earn about $1k a month playing in his spare time, this is crap return for his investment.

What are you left with after playing poker? Some money if you are lucky...and/or good. Some maths skills. No experiences, little human interaction.

Because it is just loads of repetition, from which you learn nothing, you just wait for luck to shine.

Guaranteed income for the most part, friends.
A business man can take his leadership skills elsewhere, a doctor can offer lifesaving procedures etc. A poker player can do probabililty for numbers up to 52.

20 hours social time>10 hours.