I have never posted in SMP (is that what you call it?) because I simply don't think I'm smart enough to chime in. I see posts from Burlap and my mind boggles because I have similar thought processes about the world/universe/freedom/matrix etc. Lately though I have been doing a lot of "deep" thinking or to that nature and have come up with some questions for you guys. If this has already been discussed, flame on, link me, or make fun of me for my ignorance.

What would a perfect world be and where do we get the standards to determine what a perfect world would be?

If we could look into the future and see what evolutionary aspects humans gain/lose over time, assuming we are always "bettering ourselves" for the world we live in, what natural instincts would we reinforce or learn, and which would we lose in order to live in a "perfect" world with "freedom?"

What is freedom and is it really what we want in the end?

It seems to me the more I think about the matrix we live in, the more I think the luckiest people are the dumb ones who have no concept of it.

All of my thoughts are really everywhere and are just me lost in this world, and I would like to discuss with more intelligent humans than myself. Particularly Burlap because although I've never met or talked to him, he seems to be my hero in this universe.

Insofar a 'perfect world' exists, it would be one where most people are moral. Today most people are immoral because they treat everybody else terribly (including their children). But there is some definite traction and slowly more people are starting to see the light.

There is some interesting literature about the kind of natural environments and social situations that make people feel most comfortable, creative and enlightened. Things to do with space, control, spontaneity, opportunity and so on. I'll see if I can find the articles. I think tame_deuces might be able to reference what I'm talking about, he seems very knowledgeable about all things psychological. It's a good framework for thinking about this stuff in depth.

Too subjective. My perfect world may not be perfect for you. The standards come from what each individual arguing the point finds important.

I don't think evolutionary timescales fit in with our drive towards "perfection."

Again, fairly subjective. I don't think my freedom is particularly hampered at the moment but others may say I'm a wage slave who has grown accustomed to his cage. YMMV

You don't live in "The Matrix" any more than I live in "The Shire." What is happening around you is the only reality you'll know so learn to deal with it.

Burlap is a functioning alcoholic who needs professional help. Much better role models in this forum than his drunk crys for help.

The question 'What makes a perfect world' is a dangerous question as it leads into normative theory, moving the question from 'how it is/will be' to 'how it should be'.

Ideally I would like sociology/psychology to stay away from that question. Back in the 60s/70s in Europe a lot of very strong radical political ideas was spread in large part thanks to sociology/political science studies. That researchers are entitled to personal opinion is one thing, but they definitively let it slide into their studies and under the flag of academics a lot of bias was spread. It is no secret that many students who were critical of Stalinism could risk getting bad grades if they studied under the wrong professor in those days.

An example 'of extreme' to enlighten a little what I mean; Would the world be perfect if everyone was happy? That's a question that can pose a lot of extremely difficult discussions, but ultimately the word 'perfect' is a political definition in this regard.

The above says very little since acting "moral" is undefined and subjective. Essentially you are saying: a perfect world would be one in which people were perfect, whatever that means.

As to the OP, there is no "perfect world" which will suit everyone. The first step to happiness (imo) is to realize this fact. Humans aren't apart from nature. All nature is a struggle. Whether that is the slug being eaten alive by ants, the water buffalo being ripped to shreds by the croc, the worker bees serving the queen bee, or the human being living amongst other human beings. Luckily for us, we have more options and can choose our own way with greater autonomy. Find what makes you happy, and go pursue it. The "world" is made up of all kinds of smaller worlds. Go sample a few and see what you think. And as a last resort, we have the knowledge and intelligence to observe it all and derive satisfaction merely from enjoying the view of the comedy, tragedy, and drama around us.

More questions...

First off, I grew up with a great family life. I love everyone in my family and would insta-take a bullet for any of them. But what is this "love" that I feel. Is it just selfishness in that I know these people would take a bullet for me and they love me "unconditionally" as I do to them? That I know I can trust them because I have known them my whole existence? Are families detrimental to society, in that it is a group and all our lives, we as humans need groups to fit in and make meaning to our existence. Is it families that reinforce our beliefs of being part of a group and being accepted? To create differing views from others and argue about it. To start wars and hatred.

I might be getting off topic, who knows, I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy, because I'm easy come easy go.

I liked this post a lot and basically is what I was saying with, the people who live in this "matrix" and don't realize it are by far the lucky ones cause of their ignorance.

i dunno where you get functioning from

Seriously though kerowo is exactly right. I am definitely very sick.

But it's weird. If I were to spend just two weeks exercising and not drinking I would be fine again. I've already worked through these thoughts and "realizations" years ago, and know from experience that it's all perception. It's just that it's too easy to say "**** it, I'd rather get drunk and be ******ed on the internet".

So I dunno. You'll be fine too probably.

There is no spoon (truth). It's all in your mind (matrix).

I will ask again:

Why do you have an avatar of Lysander Spooner if you are a moral subjectivist?

It's natural to initially assume that the Matrix is "society" after being administered the red pill. It's also natural to be jealous of all the "blue pills" (plugged in humans) that haven't got a clue.

After this period of despair dissipates, you'll start to see things very differently, and begin to view the whole universe as the Matrix. I was at this point for a year or so before I finally realized that the Matrix is the mind, and that it's not beyond your control.

You have to establish positive thought patterns as HABBITS before they have any effect. But once you do, your whole perception of reality will change. It's truly amazing.

But it's like working out. If you get lazy, or don't watch what you feed your mind, you can just as easily fall back into old negative thought patterns, such as I have done.

I got lazy and started drinking after 2 years of not touching a drop, and my whole world changed back to the nightmare it was just like that.

He's an alcoholic too? I did know that he was a self-described schizophrenic as well as a subjectivist ("reality doesn't exist").

I don't get it, you are saying positive thought patterns are naturally right and the cynical, scrutinizing thoughts you have now are wrong?

Nope. They're both very real. It's just a matter of what you focus on. Percption is reality.

I can focus on my devastatingly good looks, my lean and muscular physique, my potential in the world, my sick, sick MS Paint/Photoshop skills, etc.

OR I can focus on my current lack of discipline, my lack of sufficient funds, my severed relationships, having to go out into the world and become a "slave" again, etc.

What I focus on establishes "grooves" in my mind so to speak, that will slowly begin to dominate my unconscious thought process.

Yeah, you could eat your steak and say "Ignorance is bliss". Your senses are stimulated in a nice way, your stomach gets filled and you will get comfortably happy.

To me though, this is intellectually very shallow. You are essentially revering psychical energy/matter. 'Luckily' you have punctured that veil. Looking behind the curtain you see machinations and the rules set in stone, that humanity follows like meek sheep unbeknowsnt to them.

Is material satisfaction, ignorance and 'feeding' your animal side not only what would make a sheep happy. You can be happy in this way only if u admit you are sheep.

And people with a strong will or wits would not be happy in being a sheep.

I once had a dream, where humans did not exist materially. Judgement on material appearance did not exist there. Beautiful minds would meet and exchange information regardless of race or being a simple farmer and an expert scientist. Animalistic urges did not exist anymore. To what degree we were still humans and not some other transcedentent being I can't tell, but that this place was a really nice place to be, for everyone who doesn't rely on their looks to communicate and share. I felt strangely happy and nakedly free there.

In refusing the blissfull steak (maybe not by choice, but because of nature) you are like Neo sitting at his desk in his office. Complaining there should be more, that the sheep are luckily blissfull, but you continue working for your boss.

You have the capability to rise above the rules. You already claimed to have observed them. You can use this to your advantage, why not bend your reality with your strong will or wits? Stand up from your desk, and make it work for you. The bliss you gain from a metapsysical understanding, will far outweigh the taste of a steak.

Search not for the happy pill. You must know that in a world where these pills are readily available, the ones with a yearning for experience will start searching for a sorrow pill. Eternal happiness should soon wear off to general being. To experience happyness to the fullest, to appreciate a room full of friends, and not be a comfortable sheep; you will need sorrow, loneliness and an acknowledgement of the rules. If you know the rules, be the hacker, not a variable sheep.

I don't want to get off topic but for all the Matrix lovers, did you guys only enjoy the first one?

At first. Until I finally got the the second and third one. This is gonna sound real corny but they are very, very deep movies, and unfortunately you have to go a little bit loonytunes to fully understand them.

Then you are missing my point. You don't have to be ignorant of the world to be lucky and happy. You can have great knowledge of the world -- including its sorrows and tragedies -- and be happy as an observer in that knowledge. IMO, unhappiness stems from wanting something to be one way, but it really isn't that way. Once you accept the world isn't the fairy tale you want it to be, will never be that, and you look deeper into what it actually is and how it actually works, you can find real happiness in this understanding as your unfulfilled expectations melt away.

Because I enjoyed his views and writings as part of the melting pot of ideas that have helped me understand my world.

I almost pity you as you seem to evaluate everything in black-white / right-wrong / good-evil standards. I once held similar views, but am much happier and feel much more enlightened now that I see the world more closely to what it really is.

(Or in much more blunt terms: Moral objectivism is for children or those who think like children.)

I agree with this a lot and what you say does apply to me directly and how I view the world. Do you believe that in say, 100 years time, a greater percentage of the world will be "unplugged," and we will be closer to living in a more "ideal" society?

There is always a risk here. (Like the matrix trilogy contains many occult references, if you rush into an understanding of this, either nothing will make sense or you go off the far end)

Power struggles are inherent to the human organism. Unplugging certain people and giving them a position of power will not be for the best. A lot of world leaders I already view as "unplugged", using observed rules in society, and playing into them to control this very society.

Like economy was a lot more stabile and 'real' in the last century. People bought stocks because they believed in the company. It was not unheard people holding on to these stocks for a very long time. Products came into being, only after a demand. The products had a very long lifetime and were build with dedication.

Look at economy now. Peoply buying stocks for minutes, just for the value. Products are marketed to create a demand. Quality is poor and the lifetime very short, so you continue to buy these products. People open buisinesses just to go out of buisiness, and sell the inventory to make a profit.

Knowing the rules of economy better and evolving its practice has brought us a shallowing of our economy. Eventhough we 'unplugged' our greed spoiled it, and we evolved sucking out this economy to perfection. Far from ideal.

Information is power. As it becomes more and more readily available, that certainly bodes well for humanity. On the flip side, disinformation is power, too. But even today, it is amazing how the internet in its short lifespan has changed the political, economic, and academic climate. I graduated college in the early 1990s and never once used the internet during my college years. People don't always appreciate just how new this technology is -- it's like the printing press as a potential revolution in educating the masses! Today, a politician says something, and it takes 10 seconds to Google and find out if what they say is true or a lie, or somewhere in between. But be wary, because those in power are aware of this rival power and I think we'll see the internet become more of a battleground for government control (beyond just online poker) -- from porn, to finances, to govt monitoring, and it will be sold as for our own good (either to protect us from turr'sts or to protect the children).

You should re-read Burlap's posts here.

You think the blue pill is just an opiate. You think the blue pill is just comfortable ignorance. What you don't realize is that the red pill is exactly the same.

Perfection is largely, if not completely, based upon preference. A perfect world for me would be an equilibrium of everyone's preference.

Well, I don't know what instincts we would want to play with, so I can't really offer much there for now. And freedom...wow, that might be one of the most interesting concepts that exists in the great texts, IMO. Kierkegaard, Sartre...those continental-types all have strange/interesting things to say. Even the religous ones offer good points. Understanding freedom, from what I've experienced, is much less of an intellectual process than one of just straight up living and being human. Tough stuff.

I disagree. While the "dumb ones" may minimize their losses, they also minimize their gains. Poker!