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Perception Perception

09-24-2013 , 09:39 PM
We all know that some quantum theory experiments depend on whether or not someone is perceiving the experiment or not right?

What if a different animal or object is perceiving the experiment? Do the results change?

I know that my dog experiences time different than I do. I miss my wife after being on the road for a week. My dog is excited to see her after being gone only a few minutes. Does a dog react to the the speed of sound being broken before the sonic boom, earthquakes, etc.?

Does a tree moving it's leaves to attain more sunlight move much slower than I would to obtain the same result at a beach?

Do deer that can jump a 10' fence with little effort perceive gravity differently than humans or are their hind legs just that much stronger? Do we perceive them as being stronger or do we perceive gravity differently?

Do the equations of physics change depending on who or what is perceiving the outcome? Are we sadly locked in calculating equations only based upon our own perception or is there another way?
Perception Quote
09-25-2013 , 02:05 AM
I wanna know how high you were when you made that post
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09-25-2013 , 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
I wanna know how high you were when you made that post
This
Perception Quote
09-25-2013 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
We all know that some quantum theory experiments depend on whether or not someone is perceiving the experiment or not right?

What if a different animal or object is perceiving the experiment? Do the results change?

I know that my dog experiences time different than I do. I miss my wife after being on the road for a week. My dog is excited to see her after being gone only a few minutes. Does a dog react to the the speed of sound being broken before the sonic boom, earthquakes, etc.?

Does a tree moving it's leaves to attain more sunlight move much slower than I would to obtain the same result at a beach?

Do deer that can jump a 10' fence with little effort perceive gravity differently than humans or are their hind legs just that much stronger? Do we perceive them as being stronger or do we perceive gravity differently?

Do the equations of physics change depending on who or what is perceiving the outcome? Are we sadly locked in calculating equations only based upon our own perception or is there another way?
No.
Perception Quote
09-25-2013 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
I wanna know how high you were when you made that post
has to be mushrooms.
Perception Quote
09-25-2013 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
has to be mushrooms.
Is it possible to deduce what kind of nerve poison it is according to a text? What kind of text does alcohol, marihuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamin or tranquillizers have a tendency to promote? And how about combinations? Three or more would of course start to have too many unknowns, but maybe two could be spotted by the expert?
Perception Quote
09-25-2013 , 11:53 PM
I would expect shrooms to evoke this sort of thought process, but it would likely also bring out a more spiritual, one-with-the-earth-and-universe type vibe. LSD seems more likely, IMO, although due to the near perfect spelling, punctuation and structure, I highly doubt OP was under the influence at the time of posting. This is either the product of a morning after come down (perhaps right after a bowl), or simply the wide open mind of a teenager.
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 12:31 AM
The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley (I read this years ago in High School, interesting book):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doors_of_Perception

From the wiki article:



After a brief overview of research into mescaline, Huxley recounts that he was given 4/10 of a gram at 11:00 am one day in May 1953. Huxley writes that he hoped to gain insight into extraordinary states of mind and expected to see brightly coloured visionary landscapes. When he only sees lights and shapes, he puts this down to being a bad visualiser, however, he experiences a great change in his perception of the external world.

By 12:30 pm, a vase of flowers becomes the "miracle, moment by moment, of naked existence". The experience, he asserts, is neither agreeable nor disagreeable, but simply "is". He likens it to Meister Eckhart's "istigheit" or "is-ness", and Plato's "Being" but not separated from "Becoming". He feels he understands the Hindu concept of Satchitananda, as well as the Zen koan that "the dharma body of the Buddha is in the hedge" and Buddhist suchness. In this state, Huxley explains he didn't have an "I", but instead a "not-I". Meaning and existence, pattern and colour become more significant than spatial relationships and time. Duration is replaced by a perpetual present.

Reflecting on the experience afterwards, Huxley finds himself in agreement with philosopher C. D. Broad that to enable us to live, the brain and nervous system eliminate unessential information from the totality of the Mind at Large.


The Milkmaid by Johannes Vermeer [he views the painting]. "That mysterious artist was truly gifted with the vision that perceives the Dharma-Body as the hedge at the bottom of the garden", reflected Huxley.

In summary, Huxley writes that the ability to think straight is not reduced while under the influence of mescaline, visual impressions are intensified, and the human experimenter will see no reason for action because the experience is so fascinating.

Temporarily leaving the chronological flow, he mentions that four or five hours into the experience he was taken to the World's Biggest Drug Store (WBDS), where he was presented with books on art. In one book, the dress in Botticelli's Judith provokes a reflection on drapery as a major artistic theme as it allows painters to include the abstract in representational art, to create mood, and also to represent the mystery of pure being. Huxley feels that human affairs are somewhat irrelevant whilst on mescaline and attempts to shed light on this by reflecting on paintings featuring people. Cézanne's Self-portrait with a straw hat seems to him as incredibly pretentious, while Vermeer's human still lives (also, the Le Nain brothers and Vuillard) are the nearest to reflecting this not-self state.

For Huxley, the reconciliation of these cleansed perceptions with humanity reflects the age old debate between active and contemplative life, known as the way of Martha and the way of Mary. As Huxley believes that contemplation should also include action and charity, he concludes that the experience represents contemplation at its height, but not its fullness. Correct behaviour and alertness are needed. Nonetheless, Huxley maintains that even quietistic contemplation has an ethical value, because it is concerned with negative virtues and acts to channel the transcendent into the world.


The Red Hot Poker flowers in Huxley's garden were "so passionately alive that they seemed to be standing on the very brink of utterance".

After listening to Mozart's C-Minor Piano Concerto, Gesualdo's madrigals and Alban Berg's Lyric Suite, Huxley heads into the garden. Outside, the garden chairs take on such an immense intensity that he fears being overwhelmed; this gives him an insight into madness. He reflects that spiritual literature, including the works of Jakob Böhme, William Law and the Tibetan Book of the Dead, talk of these pains and terrors. Huxley speculates that schizophrenia is the inability to escape from this reality into the world of common sense and thus help would be essential.

After lunch and the drive to the WBDS he returns home and to his ordinary state of mind. His final insight is taken from Buddhist scripture: that within sameness there is difference, although that difference is not different from sameness.

The book finishes with Huxley's final reflections on the meaning of his experience. Firstly, the urge to transcend one's self is universal through times and cultures (and was characterised by H. G. Wells as The Door in the Wall). He reasons that better, healthier "doors" are needed than alcohol and tobacco. Mescaline has the advantage of not provoking violence in takers, but its effects last an inconveniently long time and some users can have negative reactions. Ideally, self-transcendence would be found in religion, but Huxley feels that it is unlikely that this will ever happen. Christianity and mescaline seem well-suited for each other; the Native American Church for instance uses the drug as a sacrament, where its use combines religious feeling with decorum.

Huxley concludes that mescaline is not enlightenment or the Beatific vision, but a "gratuitous grace" (a term taken from Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica). It is not necessary but helpful, especially so for the intellectual, who can become the victim of words and symbols. Although systematic reasoning is important, direct perception has intrinsic value too. Finally, Huxley maintains that the person who has this experience will be transformed for the better.


*************************************************
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 01:45 AM
I remember reading some or maybe all of that essay back in college, and I remember Huxley attempted to describe the reason for the "trip." As I recall, he mentioned that our brains rely on two things, oxygen and glucose. Some drugs, like alcohol, inhibit the amount of oxygen to our brain which causes its effect. He believed mescaline, LSD, and other psychedelics may restrict the amount of glucose to the brain. I never got around to verifying this, does anyone know if that is true?

He went on to explain how one of our brain's chief duties is to actually limit our perceptions so that we may better survive in this particular physical world. He thought the reduced glucose caused those parts or our brain in charge of limiting our perception to begin to shut down, resulting in our perceptions expanding. Pretty trippy.
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 01:53 AM
Whether we perceive more of reality or not under a trip is still debated. I have had LSD and shrooms and the trips on shrooms were far more emotional and vivid, yet I did not feel that my cone of perception had expanded. I simply felt like parts of my brain were shutting down so that it could not process the information in my reality as effectively as before. Essentially it was like becoming a baby again.

One could make the argument based on this, that perhaps other animals with brains that are less evolved (with regards to perception specifically) live in this kind of fuzzy world that we glimpse at when we are tripping.
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
Is it possible to deduce what kind of nerve poison it is according to a text? What kind of text does alcohol, marihuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamin or tranquillizers have a tendency to promote? And how about combinations? Three or more would of course start to have too many unknowns, but maybe two could be spotted by the expert?
good point. Also different drugs have different effects on people, meaning the combinations could be endless! Alcohol being the perfect example (happy drunk / violent drunk).

OP will be able to sort it out for us.

My ranking of likelihood:

1) Shrooms
2) LSD
3) Pot
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Do deer that can jump a 10' fence with little effort perceive gravity differently than humans...
Does an overweight slob perceive gravity differently than an Olympic high jumper?
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
We all know that some quantum theory experiments depend on whether or not someone is perceiving the experiment or not right?

What if a different animal or object is perceiving the experiment? Do the results change?

I know that my dog experiences time different than I do. I miss my wife after being on the road for a week. My dog is excited to see her after being gone only a few minutes. Does a dog react to the the speed of sound being broken before the sonic boom, earthquakes, etc.?

Does a tree moving it's leaves to attain more sunlight move much slower than I would to obtain the same result at a beach?

Do deer that can jump a 10' fence with little effort perceive gravity differently than humans or are their hind legs just that much stronger? Do we perceive them as being stronger or do we perceive gravity differently?

Do the equations of physics change depending on who or what is perceiving the outcome? Are we sadly locked in calculating equations only based upon our own perception or is there another way?
And if perception changes the thing, what happens when we view it without using thought to create a division between the perceiver and the perceived. When there is no seer but just seeing, without a center of perception, of 'what is' when 'what is' is left untouched by any perception whatsoever.
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 04:06 PM
Yep, I was messed up.

It made perfect sense when I wrote it.

Now, not so much, LOL.
Perception Quote
09-26-2013 , 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Yep, I was messed up.

It made perfect sense when I wrote it.

Now, not so much, LOL.
What were you on?
Perception Quote
09-27-2013 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Do the results change?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Does a dog react to the the speed of sound being broken before the sonic boom, earthquakes, etc.?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Does a tree moving it's leaves to attain more sunlight move much slower than I would to obtain the same result at a beach?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Do deer that can jump a 10' fence with little effort perceive gravity differently than humans or are their hind legs just that much stronger?
They have stronger legs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Do we perceive them as being stronger or do we perceive gravity differently?
Gravity is the constant here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Do the equations of physics change depending on who or what is perceiving the outcome?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guller
Are we sadly locked in calculating equations only based upon our own perception or is there another way?
Perception of the laws of physics cannot change the laws of physics. Perception affects the probabilistic outcomes, not the mechanism of those probabilistic outcomes.
Perception Quote

      
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