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My Grandad is faster than Usain Bolt My Grandad is faster than Usain Bolt

10-09-2010 , 06:32 PM
Well, maybe not my Grandad but perhaps a few great Grandfathers back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...=11604&sp=true

I'm not surprised about the Neanderthal thing because that's just a different species, right? But is there any great distinction between ancient and modern Aboriginal genes?

For some of this I'm guessing it's just a case of the average being better in the good old days or would some of those Greek rowers have given Steve Redgrave a run for his money and, if so, why? Is it that they were basically training from early childhood or perhaps because their whole lives were effectively spent training whereas Steve might spend the odd evening in front of the telly?

Were people born tough or did they get tough? And is there a cut off age where you can never make up ground on what you could have achieved if you had started training younger?
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10-09-2010 , 06:43 PM
I think Steve Redgrave trained on Christmas day, doubt no Greeks in or around 400BC be doing that.
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10-09-2010 , 06:48 PM
I believe the Oracle at Delphi had Christmas and Easter off.
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10-09-2010 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
An analysis of the footsteps of one of the men, dubbed T8, shows he reached speeds of 37 kph on a soft, muddy lake edge. Bolt, by comparison, reached a top speed of 42 kph during his then world 100 meters record of 9.69 seconds at last year's Beijing Olympics.
I'm curious about how this analysis was conducted.
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10-09-2010 , 07:06 PM
It was related to stride length.
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10-09-2010 , 07:22 PM
I'd rather drink some Starbucks

but on the subject of the Neanderthal woman, isn't like comparing two separate species? I have heard there might have been some "mixing" between humans / neanderthals but I really don't see the correlation.
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10-09-2010 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fadrus
It was related to stride length.
I did a little snooping around and I think I found the original article:

http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi...ntext=hss_pubs

Page 13 seems to indicate a speed of 20 km/hr for T8. Unless I'm misreading something...
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10-09-2010 , 08:13 PM
It seems plausible that running fast was selected for very hard and now its barely a factor. That's the sort of thing that natural selection can adapt pretty quickly.
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10-09-2010 , 10:39 PM
Heh,well researched! Right place, right number of people, wrong speed! I don't see how you can read that article and make a mistake and I find it hard to believe the author of the book just made stuff up.

I wonder if subsequent work was done on interpretation of the evidence. The original paper does say the speed figures should be treated with caution. Or maybe other sets of prints have since been found?

Weird though. I'll see if I can find anything else.
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10-09-2010 , 11:08 PM
Ok, I wonder after all if the author may have been full of cr@p!

Some of his other claims are mentioned, and ridiculed, in this forum:

http://echochamber.me/viewtopic.php?...da62911328c7dc

In fact the author replies to the thread but doesn't reappear when the issue of the original research is brought up!

And another guy who found this stuff equally dubious:

http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/10/...etic-ancients/

I got this stuff from the latest QI episode:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ries_8_Humans/

I shall be writing a strongly worded letter to the BBC.

Anyway, at least this has taught me to be less credulous Thanks Aaron.

Last edited by fadrus; 10-09-2010 at 11:26 PM.
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10-10-2010 , 06:01 AM
if any group of humans would retain those kinds of abilities it'd be australian aboriginals, they were pretty much retained hunter/gatherer-type lifestyles until 200 years ago. i think it's likely they are better runners than euros generally based on sporting representation but if their ancestors were faster than usain bolt and ridiculous javelin throwers i don't see a reason why they'd have regressed as much as europeans have

the neanderthal stuff seems more plausible tho
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10-10-2010 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
It seems plausible that running fast was selected for very hard and now its barely a factor. That's the sort of thing that natural selection can adapt pretty quickly.

My understanding is that we succeeded as hunters because of our stamina rather than speed. There were few prey we could outrun in a sprint but we could keep after them mile after mile until we ran them down.


PairTheBoard
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10-10-2010 , 02:31 PM
http://playthink.files.wordpress.com...darticle-1.pdf

Not found by me but by a poster on another forum. Looks like the guy may have been correct after all.
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10-10-2010 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBeef
if any group of humans would retain those kinds of abilities it'd be australian aboriginals, they were pretty much retained hunter/gatherer-type lifestyles until 200 years ago. i think it's likely they are better runners than euros generally based on sporting representation but if their ancestors were faster than usain bolt and ridiculous javelin throwers i don't see a reason why they'd have regressed as much as europeans have

the neanderthal stuff seems more plausible tho
The Tarahumara tribe from Mexico have retained these abilities, so have the Kenyan's.

But T8 was running approx. 20km/h on a muddy surface (and accelerating). Coupled with the fact that he may have been running for some time already and was probably carrying hunting equipment, a competitive 100m time is not that far-fetched.

But the author of that article in Reuters didn't word it that carefully.
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10-10-2010 , 04:27 PM
If you check the above link it shows that further research by the author of the original paper has provided the 37kph figure.

It seems amazing to me.
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10-10-2010 , 08:09 PM
Publishing this to sell to the public as apposed to publishing this in a journal means we should expect exaggerations to sell copies but we shouldnt completely reject the findings, imo. ie, this is to be expected and is not "ZOMG SOUND THE ALARMS" important.
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10-11-2010 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fadrus
http://playthink.files.wordpress.com...darticle-1.pdf

Not found by me but by a poster on another forum. Looks like the guy may have been correct after all.
After reading the article (and not having access to the references), I'm a little confused at the methdology. I'm not saying it's unjustifiable, but it still seems just as speculative as the first article, except that they just computed more numbers from the same starting point.
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