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Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian?

04-07-2008 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalins
46:1, this is like the maddest you've ever gotten. And this thread had been quite tame by SMP standards. What gives?
I got mugged by an atheist.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-07-2008 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad1970
Anyway.......any person who doesn't believe that the Bible is the infallible & inerrant Word of God and that Jesus is the only begotten son of God who died a horrid death on the cross for the sins of the world is not a born again Christian. Pretty straight forward actually.
Complete and utter bull****, actually. But, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-07-2008 , 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RJT
A good friend of mine died last year. He was in his 80s. He was terminal and need to go to the hospital for a procedure that would ease his last few weeks or months (can’t remember what it was – something about his kidney or urinary track, had cancer in that area, colon or something). He refused to go until he received all his 1099’s from his bank and investments so he could have his taxes filed properly. I thought that was, well I don’t what I thought it was, but I found it a bit humorous for sure. I guess he lived (and died) by the adage that nothing is certain except death and taxes.
That's a good anecdote, hah.

You can almost judge the strength of a normative system by how gracefully its adherents age. "[T]he final tragic triumph of human cogitation: I am because I die." (Nabokov, Ada, or Ardor).
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-07-2008 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46:1
I should not have re-enacted misery then.

You can't keep using the murder and mayhem of Christian or Muslim religion and make a point everytime. Unless you deem it so violent and inhuman any religious person loses the right to recognize himself and title himself by his own means.

U can call me a Christian or a 'supporter of murder', whatever YOU want.

Do I not even get to call myself Christian anymore by my OWN standards?
Fair enough, you can call yourself whatever you want by your own standard.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-07-2008 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neonclaws
These are very good questions. For most of my life I was a Christian who rejected the more ridiculous aspects of the Bible and justified my Christianity to atheists on those same philosophical grounds you mentioned, as well as the existence of consciousness. It's just been in the last year that I've really realized that none of that has anything to do with Christianity specifically.

As for why I stuck with it for so long, I can identify two major reasons.

One is just the influence of growing up with Christian friends and family and school. I'd like to think I'm smart enough to form my most important beliefs based on more than simply "what I've been told" but I guess it's not unusual to hugely influenced by this.

The second is reason is fear. While I always rejected the notion of hell or the notion that heaven was only for believers, Pascal's Wager type thinking was always in the back of my mind. And even if I could get around that, I really want to believe that an afterlife exists. I still think there's a reasonable chance of that, but its not exactly the same as the "certainty" that came with Christianity.

You dont have to fear. Just accept Jesus at the end and ask for forgiveness. Prisoners on death row do it all the time.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-07-2008 , 08:20 PM
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Intelligent "realist" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a scientist?

Or a biologist, psysicist, whatever. I'm asking YOU specifically.

Every intelligent realist person i've ever had a discussion with always concedes the embarrassing obsolete scientific facts and fringe science histories.
For example, most scientists I debate with fully acknowledge that the Phlogiston Theory is ridiculous, accept a design to the universe in some general sense, accept that the tools to carbondate are not infalible, and often forfeited the notion that our universe was even born of a Big Bang untill 1964.

Most burden-of-verifiable-proof-people I argue with, instead, make claims about genuinely puzzling philosophical problems like our existence, why is there something rather than nothing,
the very first origins of life, etc etc. They claim, it is in these questions where they find a personal god or notice his absence.
Utterly perplexed, I still question why these people associate with Science. What is it, specifically, that makes YOU a scientist?
All of the questions I have just presented have absolutely nothing to do with Science.
Science, instead, tries to find the ANSWERS to these questions, all of which could be rejected by any capable reasoner, because of the nature of the questions.
Perhaps I should inspect that previous sentence carefully. Maybe, most of these answers are rejected, but some are accepted.
If this is the case, please enlighten me as to which scientific claims hold 100% true when answering the above problems, or problems like those.

Could one be, for example, the belief in the early theories of Einstein?
Clearly not because any reasonable/intelligent person would agree that dropping the atomic bomb should not be made punishable by eternal anguish and torture.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-07-2008 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonystic
TITS OR GTFO!
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 01:28 AM
First, I am a Christian.

I have been thinking about the same thing lately. I believe most Christians that I have seen, heard, watched..etc. have an entirely terrible ability to teach or explain their belief in detail. But should they have all the answers to the questions non-believers present?

Maybe they should, why wouldn't you make absolutely sure that you are right since you have to "just believe" in something there is "no proof for"?

Then again atheists are believers, they believe/trust that what the scientists and scholars is true and is logical.

It is obviously a matter of who/what to believe either way, unless you dedicate your life to learn and study on your own, without assuming anything.



For me, it comes down to a few simple points.

1) Good=unselfish, Bad=selfish (Which is Christianity)

2) There is no proof or law or whatever in science to create or destroy energy; therefore something supernatural had to create the energy at some point

I know I've heard of things like why is nothing the default, and complicated stuff that I don't know about..or care to because of my last point

3) As long as Christianity is working perfectly for me, why should I have to prove it is right, why not use it until it fails me?



This is probably simplistic to most of you, but I think the best answers for important problems are simple.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman26gt1
First, I am a Christian.
...
For me, it comes down to a few simple points.

1) Good=unselfish, Bad=selfish (Which is Christianity)
But why is it Christianity? There are many millions of people who realize such basic moral principles without needing Christianity to tell them so.

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2) There is no proof or law or whatever in science to create or destroy energy; therefore something supernatural had to create the energy at some point
But why does this suggest Christianity over any other supernatural explanation?

Quote:
3) As long as Christianity is working perfectly for me, why should I have to prove it is right, why not use it until it fails me?
No one is questioning your right to choose it or saying you're obligated to prove it; the OP is just asking the interesting question of WHY, specifically, you choose it over any other belief system (particularly considering the apparent problems with the Bible).
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalins
But why is it Christianity? There are many millions of people who realize such basic moral principles without needing Christianity to tell them so.
Absolutely true. For me it's a lot easier to have an authority tell me what to do when I am on life tilt than trying to figure it out on my own, spending time and energy thinking about it.


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But why does this suggest Christianity over any other supernatural explanation?
It doesn't. This is my thought process on "Is there a God?"


Quote:
No one is questioning your right to choose it or saying you're obligated to prove it; the OP is just asking the interesting question of WHY, specifically, you choose it over any other belief system (particularly considering the apparent problems with the Bible).
The question was indeed interesting, I agree. Thanks OP.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
For me it's a lot easier to have an authority tell me what to do
that pretty much sums up everything regarding this thread. why christianity for you? cause you were told so. why islam for this other person? cause he was told so.

bravo
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonystic
that pretty much sums up everything regarding this thread. why christianity for you? cause you were told so. why islam for this other person? cause he was told so.

bravo
I do not believe specifically in christianity because I was told so, I am very passionate in being an individual and a leader, I take offense to this.

Judging by your "bravo" comment it seems as if you are looking for someone to prove to you why a particular religion over another..

If you genuinely wanted to find out why islam, christianity, etc.. why would you come to 2p2 for answers?
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
If you genuinely wanted to find out why islam, christianity, etc.. why would you come to 2p2 for answers?
so if i genuinely want to find out why...i cant discuss on 2+2?

secondly, i never even asked a question. i already know why most christians are christians, and why most muslims are muslims. they were brought up that way. this is a simple statistical fact. those who switch, mostly do it for convenience (marriage, etc.)
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonystic
so if i genuinely want to find out why...i cant discuss on 2+2?

secondly, i never even asked a question. i already know why most christians are christians, and why most muslims are muslims. they were brought up that way. this is a simple statistical fact. those who switch, mostly do it for convenience (marriage, etc.)
This whole time I thought you were OP, haha sorry. I meant you might get better results looking for answers in other places rather than 2p2..but I know you already have the answers.

Out of curiosity, what do you believe?
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman26gt1
I do not believe specifically in christianity because I was told so, I am very passionate in being an individual and a leader, I take offense to this.

Judging by your "bravo" comment it seems as if you are looking for someone to prove to you why a particular religion over another..

If you genuinely wanted to find out why islam, christianity, etc.. why would you come to 2p2 for answers?

Superman, in case you didn't know, you're in the atheist sandbox. You won't find very many Christians here.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-08-2008 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad1970
Superman, in case you didn't know, you're in the atheist sandbox. You won't find very many Christians here.
It's all good
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 04:20 AM
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Out of curiosity, what do you believe?
regarding what? thats a very open ended question
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman26gt1
Absolutely true. For me it's a lot easier to have an authority tell me what to do when I am on life tilt than trying to figure it out on my own, spending time and energy thinking about it.
So you're admitting that you actually haven't thought critically about being a christian because it requires too much time and energy? Seriously? This also begs the question... because ok, you want an authority figure to tell you what to do. I think thats ridiculous but ok, i can get on board with it. The problem is, why do you listen to CHRISTIAN authorities instead of MUSLIM authorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superman26gt1
It doesn't. This is my thought process on "Is there a God?"
This also begs the question. The very purpose of this thread was to question WHY your thought process on the question "is there a god" leads you to christianity. You have quite literally answered by saying, "this is my thought process"

I remain disappointed that not only has nobody provided a sufficient answer, but nobody has replied an answer at all. Every reply has begged the question. Please try again.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 08:00 PM
OP, before I respond, is there any specific reason you're asking these questions on 2p2 rather than getting answers from people who devote their lives to studying this?
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman26gt1
OP, before I respond, is there any specific reason you're asking these questions on 2p2 rather than getting answers from people who devote their lives to studying this?
Yes, there is. Not 2p2 specifically, but some soft of informal religious area. I want to know make makes the average Christian associate with christianity. What makes the average person tick i guess. I dont use the term "average" in a condescending way, i guess you could replace it with "moderate"
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 08:23 PM
I do not think there is any answer I can give you that would be satisfactory to you (or anyone else that would ask the same).

What I do is test my beliefs daily. I continually answer life's challenges with Christian values and ideals. Until they fail me or I discover a better answer to a challenge in any given situation..why would I doubt it or feel that I have to prove it? (Does this kinda make sense or no?)
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 08:26 PM
Anything I tell you though, can be questioned with (in a sense) being "brainwashed". This is why I do not think I'll be able to help you much..I most likely lack credibility in your eyes..as I would perceive the same if I were you.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-09-2008 , 09:04 PM
I call myself a Christian because I believe that Jesus came to earth to redeem humanity and I attempt to follow his teachings.

As to if im intelligent or not - im sure it could be debated but whats the point?
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-10-2008 , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
My guess is that 80% of Christians with IQs above 120 basically agree with you deep down.
what about the Christians with IQ's over 140? what percentile agrees with OP? really, for a self proclaimed mathematical genius, i really expected a much more scientific approximation.

unless of course, approximating the percentile of Christians who agree with the OP is not a test of mathematical genius, but more a question of pyschological genius... hmmmmmm

.... a psychological genius that allowed brandi hawbraker to sully his reputation beyond reason with promises of nekky pictures....

...nope, does not compute. DS's approximation is wrong.

next question please
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote
04-10-2008 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madnak
No. They were nothing remarkable. The Code of Hammurabi does much better. So I guess we should worship Babylonian deities?

The commandments have pretty much never been useful. Human law flourished without them for millenia, and even after the rise of Christianity it was the Greco-Roman approach to law that mattered, nobody held to the vicious standard of the Old Testament. It might have been some help keeping the Israelites under the thumb of their rulers in between the genocides.

Also, the question is why Christianity - the Ten Commandments have absolutely nothing to do with this question. The question is why do you think Christianity is correct while Judaism and Islam are incorrect?
didnt you know that madnak is a complete authority as to which religious teachings are the most beneficial to humanity? his comprehension of the human psychy is beyond measure. the most prudent course of action is to keep quiet and wait for madnak to prescribe a course of behaviour. blah blah blah.
i could care less if some find no use for the commandments in their own existance, but to make quasi-authoritative proclamations with no validation other than they are in correlation with your own viewpoints seems pointless.
Intelligent "religious" people - Why, specifically, do you call yourself a christian? Quote

      
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