Engine of Economic Collapse: Human Desire

The Christian theologian Augustinian recognized human restlessness and constant discontent to be the source of the “historical process”. This conjecture, as a theory for man’s discontent, takes humans out of this world’s historical process. Under Christian theology the human soul has supernatural qualities; it, Christianity, takes the human species out of the animal kingdom and places wo/man between the natural and the supernatural.

Marx emphasizes the importance of the “economic factor” in the process of history.

While Freud agreed with the importance of the economic factor, he theorized that “work and economic necessity are the essence of the reality-principle…the essence of man lies not in the reality-principle but in repressed unconscious desires…no matter how bitter the struggle for bread, man does not live by bread alone,”.

Freud raises the question ‘Why do humans do the things they do’; in other words, what do humans desire beyond economic welfare and the mastery over nature?

Eros—the sum of self-preserving instincts that are manifested as impulses to gratify basic needs, as sublimated impulses, and as impulses to protect and preserve the body and mind—love.

Freud theorizes that beyond labor there is Eros. “And if beyond labor at the end of history there is love, love must have always been there from the beginning of history, and it must have been the hidden force supplying the energy devoted to labor and to making history…From this point of view, repressed Eros is the energy of history and labor must be seen as sublimated Eros.”

I think that Eros is the engine of our present economic collapse. And I think that Eros, human desire, love of self, is the steam engine of history.

Do you think that repressed Eros is the source of our present economic catastrophe?

Quotes from “Life against Death: The Psychoanalytic Meaning of History” by Norman O. Brown

What? Please explain the connection you see in further detail.

That is capitalism. And yes, this economic collapse can be attributed to the overconfidence of many mortgage dealers/derivative traders. The risks were to high and the confidence/self-importance was to high b/c others were making money doing it and if they didn't do it too, they would be in danger of losing their job.

I also believe that some sort of recession is needed b/c it is much like a forest fire but for the economy. We get rid of resources that are not needed anymore and find new ways to use them, in turn creating new needs. Humans, in general, are never satisfied. Bettering ones self is the process of forming rational arguments for all choices and weighing the choices utilities. The higher utility wins thus fueling betterment even if it involves taking chances that are extremely risky.

Now that we have had a collapse, everyone will be more cautious as to what the right course of action is b/c most don't know what to do when they have never experienced what we are going through first hand. Warren Buffet suggests investing when the masses are in panic and selling when the masses are sure of themselves b/c when people start doing everything the same way it overcrowds the market, causing a peak at some point (impossible to tell when this is). This is not the first time the banks have collapsed and it won't be the last time, it will just require the correct variables to set everything in motion. How are these variables changed? By trying to better humans self.

We humans live our lives between a rock and a hard place. We face the paradox : narcissism is necessary and detrimental for survival.

The fetus resting in the womb is in a state of absolute narcissism. Freud says “By being born we have made the step from an absolute self-sufficient narcissism to the perception of a changing external world and the beginning of the discovery of objects.” The absolute self-narcissism is partially dissolved and divided with objects.

The “normal” person, in maturity, has made an apportionment of narcissistic energy between the self and the other in a manner that society finds acceptable.

Originally Freud’s view of narcissism was based on his concept of sexual libido wherein this psychic narcissistic energy was directed for sexual manifestations. This theory was later modified by Freud and was empathesized by Jung as an energy that binds the needs of the individual both internally and externally to fit the needs for survival. Highly charged energies create forces that motivate behavior for that organisms’ survival.

The comprehension of human behavior depends upon an understanding of these narcissistically energized forces.

Primary narcissism is the label given to this force accompanying the new born; wherein the only reality is the self, its body and its accompanying sensations associated with a need for sleep, bodily contact, warmth, thirst, and hunger.

Moral hypochondria is little different from physical hypochondria manifestations. “The narcissism underlying physical or moral hypochondriasis is the same as the narcissism of the vain person, except that it is less apparent, as such, to the untrained eye.” K. Abraham calls this negative narcissism and it is characterized by feelings of inadequacy, unreality, and self-accusation.

How do we recognize the individual with abnormal levels of narcissism? S/he shows all the signs of self-satisfaction, generally oblivious of others, very sensitive to criticism, little genuine interest in the outside world, and all of these characteristics are often hidden behind an attitude of modesty and humility.

Another important characteristic of some individuals is the association of certain aspects of their person that become objects of focused narcissism. They become very sensitive to any disagreement with their ideas, their honor, their house, their car, intelligence, or physical prowess. S/he will often seem to have fallen in love with all of their stuff.

“Speaking teleologically, we can say that nature had to endow man with a great amount of narcissism to enable him to do what is necessary for survival. This is true especially because nature has not endowed man with well-developed instincts such as the animal has…In man the instinctive apparatus has lost most of its efficacy—hence narcissism assumes a very necessary biological function…Narcissism is a passion the intensity of which in many individuals can only be compared with sexual drive and the desire to stay alive.”

Narcissism has an important function to perform—it is important for our survival. However, there is a serious down side. Extreme narcissism makes us indifferent to others and incapable of giving our personal needs second place to the needs of the community. Extreme narcissism is the opposite of empathy; it makes us asocial creatures unable to cooperate for the common good.

Another dangerous result of narcissism is that it distorts our ability to reason and to make good judgments. “Narcissistic value-judgment is prejudiced and biased. Usually this prejudice is rationalized in one form or another and the rationalization may be more or less deceptive according to the intelligence and sophistication of the person involved…If he were aware of the distorted nature of his narcissistic judgments, the results would not be so bad. He would—and could—take a humorous attitude toward his narcissistic bias. But this is rare.”

The narcissistic person reacts with great anger when criticized. S/he tends to take all criticism as a personal attack; this can be understood when we recognize that the extremely narcissistic person is unrelated to the world; s/he feels alone and frightened and these feelings lead to compensation by self-inflation. “When his narcissism is wounded he feels threatened in his whole existence…This fury is all the more intense because nothing can be done to diminish the threat by appropriate action; only destruction of the critic—or oneself—can save one from the threat to one’s narcissistic security.”

Depression is a means other than rage for struggling against a wounded narcissism. The narcissistic person uses the shield of self-inflation, acquiring a feeling of omniscient and omnipotent, to overcome the arrows of the outside world. The narcissistic person dreads the feeling associated with depression and one way to combat this alternative is to attempt to change reality in such a way as to conform to his self created image. This is done by associating with others in a dynamic of group narcissism.

This post is getting too long; I will close by saying that group narcissism represents the most dramatic phenomenon that leads to human destructiveness.

Ideas and quotes from “The Heart of Man” Erich Fromm

So you wrote an extremely long post and rather than address my question in a simple, concise manner, in your own words, you decide to use more quotes which do not really relate to my question.

My question is simple, how does this human desire result in economic collapse. I responded a previous posting of yours regarding issues in the economy in which your thinking was very off base and you never replied. Here again you are trying to make a strange connection to the economy and rather than not responding at all you, you choose to respond in a manner that does not even truly attempt to answer my question. Please learn to answer questions directly rather than using non germane quotes to answer the question.

Greed will always remain unsatiated.

We can see only what we are prepared to see. Many things are too complex to fit on a bumper sticker. In our sound bite society this comes as a shock but that is life.

Ok well I am officially not responding to any of your wacky posts. You can act as though you are somehow enlightened but this is clearly not the case given the claims you have made about economic issues. I was asking for your to clarify so that I could better center my response detailing how incorrect your assumptions were, but I guess you are already an economic guru. It is no surprise to me that looking through the majority of your posts that they recieve under 5 responses on average and very few views. Congratulations, you are the first person on 2+2 that I am putting on ignore.