copa america?

fyp

you really overrate Mascherano

I don't think so. But even if I way overrate Mascherano, and way underrate Gilberto Silva, I STILL couldn't get to the absurd conclusion that Silva is "way way better than Mascherano."

I'm also allowing for the fact that Mascherano is much better for Argentina than what he showed for Liverpool this year (when he was quite far from his best due to, in large part, Benitez).

annihilated...that would indicate massive odds right?

He didnt fail, he just was injured most of the time. When he played he did really well.

Gilberto is just as good defensively, and lends himself to the Brazilian attack more frequently and better than Mascherano does for Arg. Functionality, effectiveness to each players' respective wc teams, how could you say Mascherano is better?

I think you are jaded by the fact that Mascherano is such a beast he can cover a wide area (though he was getting pwned yesterday by Mexico until Bofo decided to drop back and effectively help Mascherano guard him) even in this dysfunctional Argentina team. Results oriented ftl.

The wcq start on 2011 after copa america, wcq > copa america in southamerica.
That said copa america is nice and will be a test to see what we can expect in the WCQ.

"Failure refers to the state or condition of not meeting a desirable or intended objective, and may be viewed as the opposite of success."

Wikipedia definition of failure.

Well that's at least something approaching an intelligent argument, although I still disagree. I think Mascherano is the most important non-Messi player for Argentina ainec. If you asked Maradona who he could least afford to lose besides Messi I'm quite sure he would pick Mascherano.

Gilberto Silva does function well as part of Dunga's well-oiled machine, but Mascherano is better and more important to his side. With Kaka in poor form, Mascherano would be massive for Argentina should the two sides play.

He was all alone again Mexico, in a knockout game no less; Messi played behind the strikers in a freeish central role, and Mascherano did all the DM work himself (and well, I certainly didn't see him getting pwned like you did). Someone who can do that so capably is a huge asset (and quite rare) in today's game.

In a nutshell, you take away Messi (or at least discomfort him) and Argentina is a way, way lesser team. That is why they won't win the WC this year. Imo Argentina is missing Cambiasso, badly.

QFDiegooooooooooooo

Agree that Cambiasso is a great player, and I even think Zanetti might be missed more, tbh.

The thing is, it's really ****ing hard to take away Messi, he's the best player in the world. If you do take him away, you can get pwned by Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria or any number of fantastic strikers on the bench. (I think you probably remember a little something about what Tevez can do).

If Argentina has any problems, they're in the back, not a lack of attacking options.

Need Dutchie to step up and make QF Matchday July 1 thread, Uruguay/Ghana; Brazil/Netherlands. You know what to do, pole, hot chicks, GhanaianDevil.gif, etc...

I think Mexico did a good job with Messi, it was his worst match of the WC so far. I think we should be able to do the same with Khedira and Schweinsteiger, but I'm really afraid of Mascherano because he might be able to take Özil out of the game.

Agree Messi is the best in the world ainec. No doubt Argentina is lethal up front (most talent in the wc)...but you can have the most wrecking ball crew up front (like they do) if you don't have a link or that Messi type, it's moot. Not to say your front and their unbelievable individualities still wouldn't get you the results, but cohesive attack would definitely take a huge hit.

Aye. And Diego top-cornering that **** is the new... whatever the most awesome response would be to "make or miss league".

I'll give you 2.5 (+150) on Netherlands to qualify.

Yeah, that was the argument I was making about Mascher v Kaka as well. And I certainly think Ozil>Kaka on current form.

It's going to be an awesome game that could go either way for sure though.

Clark, I have your answer for the avatar bet.

I don't even think Gilberto Silva is seen as the best for Panathinaikos or in the Greek league as a whole for that matter and I didn't think he was that good towards the end at Arsenal either with Flamini being the better player. That's how I remember it anyway.

He works well for Brazil though using his experience to fulfill a very tactical close to perfection.

He also gets plenty of help and team work while Mascherano is the only good defender in the whole Argentine midfield.

There is not a club in the world who would take Gilberto Silva over Mascherano.

Good showing by Chile, I'm upset that I can't use my Chile to the 1/4-finals winnings on a nice vacation there though (because they don't exist :P)

You'll have a good team for 2-3 WC's minimum imo but size sucks really hard, set pieces are going to kill Chile

I think Brazil is scarrier than Argentina and am very glad that we can't face them till the finals. Their defense just looks extremly solid, granted Chile played too cute and all

If they line up like previously in this tourny I wouldn't worry. As the only defensive midfielder in no way can Mascherano afford to focus on one player. It would require a whole other balance and other players with more defensive responsibility if he was to do that or space would open up everywhere for the German players (it might just anyway mind you).

Instead he'll be a one-man army mustering as many defensive assignments as possible which he is very good at.

Mistakes Bielsa made:
1) Not taking Mancilla to South Africa.
2) Fernandez starting.

Meh, not happy we are facing Brazil obv. We are dogs, but anything is possible. If we win, I see us making the final for sure.