I think it all depends on the system that's in play.

Examples:

Lampard - last few seasons for chelsea he's been scoring loads of goals and influencing the game a huge amount - this season changed system, he's still having a big effect but it's not as big effect as your not getting the full out of him and he's never going to score goals in the role that he's in.

Gerrard - When with liverpool he's awesome and is liverpool along with Torres, shift him out to the left and he's quite frankly useless.

Cesc - haven't seen enough of him in different positions or systems to see how well he'd play but again the same type of player huge effect and influence on the team.

he also implied that Tebow = Tom Brady in college

yeah, that is what i am implying. that is also way different than what you were arguing for like 20 posts straight. assuming you mean lampard as the one who is horrible in a normal 442 role, thats hilarious.

either you dont know what imply means, or you are an idiot. probably the former, proving the latter.

If you are trying to play Gerrard as a pure CM, you are wasting his talents, which is pressing forward, making runs, and playing off the CF. Lampard is sort of like Cesc in that he is comfortable in the middle of the field receiving the ball and dispersing it, however he is not as good a passer. Cesc thrives in the middle of the field and he is comfortable holding onto the ball and moving into space properly to be able to receive it and advance it forward. He is not able to make the same runs as Gerrard, unless they are possessionish runs around the box. He also is not as good a shooter as Lampard, who can shoot from any area around the box with legit threat.

If I was going to try to play a 442, I'd take Cesc or Lampard. If you wanted to play a 4411, Gerrard is much better in that "hole" position. Both Cesc and Lampard fit in the midfield well in a 433.

I'm not.

wow I agree! I conceded very early on that there is a good chance england could play better as some hybrid formation with cesc included! I want mourinho to coach england so I can see it happen! I agree that gerrard gets wasted on england! I didnt say england wouldnt improve as a team if they included cesc along with FL and SG in some random formation! Just that he wouldnt start, because england isnt going to play some random formation. Capello is a nit. A good nit, but a nit.

but in terms of box-to-box CMs, which they all 3 can play exceptionally well even gerrard who excels at a different role, I would still take the 2 over cesc.

well that is even funnier then. I guess you missed that 05 CL final? Or every other game where he covers every blade of grass out of necessity for lPool? Or every england game he plays in? Just because gerrard excels at something else doesnt mean he is horrible in a traditional boxtobox CM role. hes actually pretty damn good at it.

Man honestly, I think Gerrard is the problem. You need to cater the team too much to his strengths to get the best out of him, and I don't think England has the players to do that. If you were going to play Gerrard in the hole, play ****ing Rooney there instead.

with Crouch up top LDO

well considering cesc is spanish, who would you start in an england lineup instead of SG?? i think with what they have to work with they are doing the optimal job, and even though catering to gerrard would cause the team as a whole to not play as well i think they do a decent job of having him fit into the team instead of the other way around.

lol @ gerrard being better in a 4-4-2 than cesc
gtfo seriously#


gerrard and lampard only start because they are the big players of english football
truth is that they never really worked together which is a big reason england struggled a lot the last few years

Im certain gerrard + cesc or lampard + cesc works a lot better than the lampard + gerrard nonsense

If you want to play a normal 442, I don't see why they don't play:


--------Rooney----Heskey(I guess)-------
Young--------Lampard----------Lennon
----------------Barry------------------


If you are really determined to play both Lampard and Gerrard, then England better hope J. Cole is healthy.

Then they could play something like:

-----------Heskey-----------
Cole------------------Rooney
------Lampard----Gerrard----
-----------Barry-----------

Or maybe you swap Rooney for Heskey and play Lennon on the right. In this role, let Gerrard play more attacking and Lampard working with Barry in the midfield. Kind of a wate of Lampard IMO, but thats what I would do.

tsc wtf?

you constantly say my draft team is unbalanced and then you post this lol formation?

England didn't do anything in international football and now went 9-0-1 threw a group with Ukraine and Croatia, I think they should just continue the way they played lately

this avatar got into your head tsc

lol dude I have limited resources to work with here.

What do you think is the ideal England lineup?

probably

probably what they are playing right now

England kinda miss a real DM(hargreaves injury hurt them a lot) and a Quality MS(Rooney doesnt work as a lone striker I dont think)

agree with you about the DM spot, Barry's not great cover there.

What I was trying to say in a short way:

Never change a winning team

call me old fashioned but i wana see my boy becks start and win a WC. bink it one time dealer plz. give lennon a left foot and switch him.

also <3 walcott + rooney matchup.

zugzwang

What? You serious?

lol wat no i dont actually want capello to do that, i prefer to not see another england self destruction. just saying in a perfect world where it did not affect the quality of the team at all, id like to see becks get that. and even though walcotts a goonar watching him and rooney together gives me a hardon.

Tbf to zugzwang I think with some teams' composition Lampard > Cesc in a 4-4-2. I'm not ready to say it absolutely, but there are some combinations of 10 other players that fill out the 4-4-2 that would make me opt for Frank, just as there are some groups of personnel that would make me opt for Cesc.

It's difficult to compare Cesc to Gerrard as players, but I think centrally in a 4-4-2 it's pretty clear that Cesc > Gerrard. Just my two cents.

And to get the thread back on track, I know I'm kind of googletarding but how do they break ties in the UEFA playoffs? Do they have the away goal rule like in Champion's League? Or does it go to extra time and penalties if the aggregate is tied?

Yeah, away goals and penalties.

Here are the predictions of my model:

Ireland - France:
Ireland: 38.9%
France: 61.1%

Portugal - Bosnia-Herzegovina:
Portugal: 70.5%
Bosnia-Herzegovina: 29.5%

Greece - Ukraine:
Greece: 55.1%
Ukraine: 44.9%

Russia - Slovenia:
Russia: 58.4%
Slovenia: 41.6%