Aren't you always telling us what a legend Larry Hughes is? Not to mention Jerry Stackhouse, Rip Hamilton, and Christian Laettner? If LeBron had those guys, you'd be talking about how amazing they were.

MJ was fully in control of that Wizards team as GM - including choosing his coach and adding himself on a min salary. If the team wasn’t good enough in those circumstances it ALL comes back on MJ.

In any case, we now have the comprehensive proof that old LeBron >> old MJ in terms of health, athleticism, availability and production. So what are you really trying to argue here? LeBron can get swept by the Nuggets and he’ll still have produced a clearly superior age 39 season to MJ.

All time draft, who are you picking first to help build a dynasty?

Assuming you have a very average roster to start with...

The Wizards with MJ off the court in 2001 had a much better net rating than the Lakers with LeBron off this year. The constant lying of MJ stans despite readily available data that proves their lies is timeless.




That Bulls team wasn’t good. By your logic the 8 seed that loses to the title winning 1 seed every year is the same as every other playoff team? Yes, very logical. Tank to the 8 seed and lose to the eventual champ because it’s more impressive than losing in the Finals.


No one reasonable said MJ should have beaten the Celtics in that first round. I have no issue with MJ losing to them, it was an unwinnable series for him. It counts zero against him.

Just don’t tell me getting swept was the same or “more impressive” than Lebrons 07 Finals run at a younger age because they both lost to the eventual champions. Or use “Finals record” as a goat metric when losing before the Fjnals is superior.

It has to be LeBron: more versatile, bigger and athletic and we now know that he will extend his career across more than two decades; playing thousands of All-NBA calibre minutes more than Jordan.

Yes, as a GM you need to build around him successfully and get a championship contender out on the floor around him within that first half-decade. Otherwise, he won't sit around and simply accept your incompetence. That seems like a fair trade IMO.

If you're worried about rebuilding around him, then maybe Jordan is the safer choice. More beta about his career, lacking vision on how to take control of his destiny. He'll even fail to drag you over hot coals in the media when you choose to end things in his late thirties, and just moan about it decades later in his documentary instead.

This thread is pretty boring and repetitive.

Lock it up.

Low seeds lose in the 1st Round - the first time Lebron had a low seed (21'), he lost in the 1st Round.

The only reason Lebron never had low seeds before that is because he waited 3 years to develop a veteran, high seed and good coach before entering his first playoffs in 2006.. Accordingly, his 3rd-year high seeds can't be compared to Jordan's 1st-year 8 seeds..

And by "development", I mean that Lebron and Zydrunas became all-stars in 05' - that's development... This all-star duo added a HOF coach and 22/5/5 all-defender before the 06' season - that's more development.. So these teams from 06-10' cannot be compared to Jordan's rookie & sophomore teams (85-87').. Jordan didn't get this 3-year development journey to high seed before entering his 1st playoffs - he was throw in right away with no cast or coaching.

Ultimately, Finals teams are almost always high seeds/good teams relative to their conference - that's why Finals appearances are conference-dependant and matter little - winning the whole league is obviously what matters, which means winning the Finals..

Losing the Finals badly means the player wouldn't make the Finals from the other conference and are simply benefitting from a weak conference.. In this case, it was a weak conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning (01', 02", 03', 07', 09'), yet Lebron took the top 3 options and put them on 1 team (the:"decision") - he remarkably got credit for winning the conference after that.. But ultimately, no one cares about Lebron beating Rose and DeRozan when he should be facing Bosh and Wade.

Think it depends on when you're starting the franchise too. If you're starting in 1984 when nobody was particularly good at basketball and shooting contested jumpers (and not being that good at passing) was considered an asset, then you might want Jordan.

Do you not get bored?

If you spent as much time working on your poker game you'd be full Ike Haxton by now.

A dynasty .
Hard to build one, with a guy like lebron winning 4 title in 21 years with 3 different teams.

6 titles in 7 years seem a dynasty to me, while the guy even retired twice lol.
Imagine if he didnt and play in a weak ass east conference for 10 years in a league like today ...

It's 6 in 8 seasons, and yes of course it's a dynasty I don't think anyone is disputing that.

Why does Jordan get 6 in 8 and not 6 in 15 (or whatever) but Lebron gets 4 in 21 and not 4 in 9?

But seriously guys, don't forget that Jordan chucking bricks for a 37 win Washington team was better than what LeBron is doing right now.

It just shows how ridiculous their LeBron hate and Jordan worship is.

Let's do the same thing back at them. Jordan is really 6 out of 32 if you include the 4 years he didn't bother to play and his 13 years of losing ownership.

The ridiculous thing is I'm a big Jordan fan but the Lebron haters are just so sad you have to sink to their level.

6 in 8 and he never won after the second retirement.

LOL me too. I live in Chicago ffs.

Let's also include Jordan's four college years where he also didn't win an NBA title

It’s ok if u believe 6 rings in 8 years span , including a tiny retirement, shouldn’t be considered a dynasty .
We see how honest you are .
Regardless if the guy play at 36-37 of injured in his late 30s with a trash team .
Ps: both mj and lebron won their last title at 35 , what did LeBron afterwards , he didn’t made playoffs either like MJ while LeBron had a better team
Shrug .

Seriously?
How t f a GM can build a dynasty on 3 different teams ?
Well I guess when he trades with another GM maybe he can ask to trade himself with another GM taking his place shrug

Everybody agrees they were a dynasty

They can't but you're using the X in Y argument against Lebron and using it illogically. Whether they were "a dynasty" or not who cares.

In addition, the fact Lebron had to win with 3 different back offices and coaches and entire different rosters rather than building from the GOAT coach and arguably GOAT back office is a strike _for_ Lebron not against him, champ.

The 80s wasn’t good ?
How old are you ?

U had arguably 4 of the top 5 players ever in that decade with couple incredibly strong team throughout that decade .

Game is way more evolved now. We simply know more. There's a reason why nobody takes contested long 2s any more like they did then, and defense is MILES better now.

It was a league conspiracy to get the Lakers the most help so Dinwiddie/Wood are overkill - the Lakers have too many other good players so those guys don't get minutes.. Unfortunately, Lebron's 7 turnovers and ball-dominance puts a lower ceiling on team performance, so his teams get destroyed by superior brands of ball.. Lebron-ball has a lottery record against the now-antiquated spurs, warriors, mavs and magic brand of ball, so it will get destroyed against a prime jokic-ball.. it's over.. another sweep.. denver knows how to put the squeeze on lebron when it matters and exploit his inferior brand of ball.. Lebron has always been weak in the 4th and clutch-time due to high turnovers and low efficiency on jumpshots and FT's - this is exploitable in the clutch

Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - that's why teams get "hot" on bron-ball for 21 years and this includes the 11' Mavs, 09' Magic, 23' Nuggets, 14' Spurs, 17' Warriors - all the top brands go off on bron-ball because they win the attrition battle - they wear down the Lakers with zippy ball movement, so the Lakers have less capacity for offense, while Denver has more capacity as the game goes on (due to resting vs bron's ball-dominance and turnover machine).. I hope no one had their hopes up because 21 years shows us what happens to bron-ball when he isn't getting lucky via teammate bailout.

Well im going with guys that actually created dynasty , that was the question.


It’s ok if u see it that way .
I don’t.
Going around and fishing great teammates isn’t that hard .
KD showed it I suppose .
Garnett.
Shaq too.
Even we can say wilt did it with lakers .

Late years Kidd and Payton did it eventually after many tries .
Ps: I’m not throwing stones at them btw , I just don’t add particular value , as u do , for that narrative.

Defence is miles better so that’s why we see unprecedented numbers of players scoring over 30ppg in regular season with many players scoring 60/70 pts in 1 game …
Yeah it’s way harder to score today , the all stars game was a great example how defence is so important today .
wtf…

Do u really believe mj wouldn’t have even higher stats today ?
Bird would kill the games of today too and many others .

The last ~decade of the Warriors were a dynasty too though.