They were washed up in 2010 and only won 50 games..... -500 underdogs to the Cavs.

KG had catastrophic injury in 2009 and was literally horace grant when he returned (14/7)

History shows that MJ beat the Isiah, Dumars and Rodman when they were 27-29 years old, while Lebron didn't beat the KG/Pierce/Allen until they were 32-34....... and he needed Wade to be 1st option during that series and playoff run (2011)... that's like Bird coming along and leading the Bulls in scoring when they finally beat the Pistons in 91'... lol

There's no comparison - Bron is just a fraud

Moved the goalposts again.

You claimed LeBron was the first and only player to form a team with "3 franchise players" when the Celtics literally had that exact criteria 3 years before "the decision."

Kevin Garnett is historically underrated because he spent his prime in dogshit Minnesota and didn't win a title with Sam Cassell as his second best player. LeBron didn't want to waste his prime like that too.

Phil Jackson built the team, not MJ.

“Washed” = 50 wins and taking Jackson / Kobe / Gasol et al to 7 in the Finals. Your posts are so weird and wrong.

I'm sorry AD didn't go 15/17. Once again LeBron carrying his horrible team mates.

It would take a worse AD?

Neither PJ nor MJ built the bulls.


Jerry Krause built the bulls. Plain simple.


Jordan wanted to draft Joe Wolf instead of either Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. Jordan also didn't like Toni Kukoc either because he hated Jerry Krause.

Proof here: https://www.sportscasting.com/michae...-unc-teammate/


Jerry Krause is probably one of the most important people to Jordan's success. If Jordan was given the reigns it would be a lot like the Wizards roster or anyone of his Charlotte rosters he put together.

You nor fallguy watch any NBA games.

I'm on record here saying Jokic has plenty of GOAT equity. Jokic is also inferior than LeBron at a few things but superior at others.


I also find it hard for a non elite scorer + passer (must be elite at both) to reach GOAT levels.


Wemby does have top 10 talent though and a higher ceiling than Giannis.

Wemby will snap a leg in the next 3 years and downslide

Yeah I think the unlikely outcome is his body holding up.

This is a good summary but I cant help but lol at your takes fallguy, with you having not watched the nba for the last 15 years or so

You know, I really don’t disagree. The limp portrayal of an MJ with no agency denied at a chance of a 4 peat by evil Jerry Krause in the Last Dance is sad and unfair. Chicago fans subsequently booing his widow all very unseemly. Krause put the perfect players around MJ.

But Jackson, I mean…Jackson makes this all work imo. Jackson coached 20 seasons between 89 and 2010 and won 11 Titles. Bonkers. Another 5 conference finals. And never missed a playoffs.

This is a core piece of the debate. MJ was utterly great, but it really was the perfect platform.

Wrong

Jordan's Dad built that Bulls team when his preordained sperm slipped one past the goalie inside Deloris

PJ was a great manager of big egos.

But building the team means drafts / trades / free agent signings. He came in 1986 and made these moves:

1) Traded for the #5 pick in 1987 to get Scottie Pippen, who was the 2nd best player from that draft. Seattle got absolutely fleeced in that trade.

2) Still kept Bulls pick in 1987 and drafted Horace Grant #10.



Those 2 moves that year were just gigantic executive of the decade type moves.


Lesser but still important moves:

3) Traded for Cartwright which gave Bulls low post defence against bruising centers of the 90s.

4) Toni Kokuc

5) Dennis Rodman trade - However nobody wanted Rodman at the time.

6) Fired Doug Collins and elevated PJ

I really hope he puts on 20-30 lbs to his frame ala Giannis.

I think we can all agree if the Lakers lose tonight then Lebron isn't the GOAT.

You say this like the "GOAT" didn't join up with a top 3 player in the league himself five years earlier and get crushed anyway. It's not unfair when LeBron does it I guess (probably because the result is always so disappointing)

When MJ lost in 1st round twice in his first 2 season , LeBron didn’t even made the playofffs !
So I guess better not make the playoffs to preserve LeBron perfect record not losing either in the first round ?

And MJ lost in the first round vs the champion anyway !
So I guess LeBron got lucky to never have to play much of his career in though conference to reach so many finals and find excuses to say he lost more then mj in final because he was great not losing in first round vs real competition ?
See how that works ?
LeBron reach many finals because he never played in a conference has tough as mj !
Never !

Imagine watching Lebron's last two games and thinking Jordan was a better passer. LOL.

Don't claim "sample size" either, he does this all day every day.

Yeah all losses in the finals are conference championships, somewhat akin to Final Fours. It's a monster plus for LeBron, Magic and Kareem. Up against the super GOAT finals swoopers it pales a bit, but it seems too often treated like it's a diss. Nicklaus 19 runner-up majors is what, a disgrace?

When Brady was 4-2 in Superbowls vs Montana's 4-0, I don't think anyone thinks 4-0 > 7-3 but there might be a 49er fanatic twog floating around

I believe Lebron is undefeated in the PLAYIN game. G. Oat

It’s totally different .
Nicklaus was still competing vs the same and best field .
Lebron was hiding in the east with a super team -> there is a reason he lost more than wins ….

Funny that Lebron stance complain about hardship of Lebron for the finals yet not caring about LeBron facing so much weaker competition in the east that mj never had the luxury to have .

Ie: the top 4 seasons with the highest east wins rate vs west in regular season is not surprising 1987, 1989,1997,1998 …..since 1981!

Just for context ?
Lebron 5 years “domination” (2011-2015) had the weakest east conference wins rates in the history on the nba .
The highest win rates in that 5 years stretch (2013) , only 5 other years since the beginning , the east had a weaker win rates !
So Lebron had on the 10 weakest years ever in the east , 5 of them while 4 having a super team in Miami ….
Yeah right , hard to lose in the first round or not reach the finals, I granted u that …
https://www.basketball-reference.com...t_vs_west.html

When I hear LeBron stance saying not fair for LeBron because of tough competition in the final he had to face -> “hold my beer “says Tim Duncan !

On top of facing bloodbath west conference , Duncan had to face the “goat” in the final and still manage to win ?
Lebron stance just cry babies …