Dude won 66 games with this roster:



You know deep down that you're full of ****.

Chicago is a great American city. lol cmon bruh

One can be the biggest MJ fan without having to be a Bron hater.

I don't even really like Bron, but facts are facts.

Jokic has the peak to match LeBron and MJ. Jokic probably a better offensive player than both LeBron / Jordan at peak.

He needs more peak years.

If he can do this for another 7-8 years he definitely right there in GOAT debate.


What hurts him a little bit is how long it took him to start dominating. Before 25/26 he really wasn't doing anything.

We have Matt R. and TWOG trying to crap on the 73 Warriors as much as possible because LeBron beat a 73 win team, and we all know 73>72.

By definition of what "odds" are - the underdog (even the Pistons this year) is still expected to win sometimes

So everyone will have upset wins - literally everyone - even the Pistons

So are you bragging about Lebron being the "pistons" of the Finals (being crappy like the pistons but still winning once in a while and getting the media to misreport this as goat?).. You're bragging about this caliber?... Even a broken clock is right twice a day - such a caliber is nothing to brag about..

it's better to be the perennial favorite that loses once in a while, then the perennial underdog that wins once in a while

of course we already know that lebron had more help in those Finals than anyone ever had because no one ever had a teammate outplay the league MVP - only Lebron gets this kind of help (kyire over curry; ad over jokic; wade over dirk) yet he's still "broken clock" or "pistons" caliber (perennial underdog or loser that gets lucky once in a while, which the media misreports as goat instead of one-off lucky "pistons" caliber or "broken clock" caliber)

Jordan is 1-9 without Pippen.


Pippen won 55 games in 1994 without Jordan.

How long did Kyrie last in Boston?

Kyrie is a cancer who's lost everywhere he's gone, except for when he was carried by LeBron. Lottery team before LeBron went back to Cleveland, and 0 titles since leaving LeBron. FACT.

So your new narrative is Kyrie > Curry? LMAO.

then Jordan got quite lucky re: variance

but that doesn't apply to him, right sport?

.
2009 MO WILLIAMS........ 17.2 PER... 2.3 BPM... 3.1 VORP... 0.165 WS/48...,,.. #3 team defense
1990 PIPPEN.................... 16.3 PER... 1.8 BPM... 3.0 VORP... 0.087 WS/48..... #19 team defense


^^^ 09' Cavs superior on both sides of the ball than the 90' Bulls




That's the exact same roster as 2008 (45 wins) except they added an all-star spacer for Lebron's stiff arm that was superior offensively to 1990 Pippen across the board, while the Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense (19th for 90' Bulls).

So the 2009 Cavs were superior on both ends of the floor than the 1990 Bulls, yet Jordan still beat Lebron to titles by winning in 91', while Lebron kept losing as the favorite for 2 more years.. Lebron lost as the favorite despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite, or forming a super-team - he took the top 3 first options in the conference and put them on 1 team, yet still lost as the favorite (to a 1-star team).

you can't make this up.





Lebron failed against the Dwight because he was too ball-dominant at carry-job volume, while also having his first big choke with 7 turnovers in the critical 4th quarter of Game 4 that swung the series.. He also had the goat defensive choke by deciding to guard Courtney Lee instead of providing the size/agility to guard the Magic forwards (Hedo, Lewis)... These errors caused the Cavs become one of the 10 biggest favorites to ever lose a playoff series (-700 favorite).. The Magic actually had the injury excuse (all-star PG Jameer Nelson was out), yet they still won.. So imagine Lebron having the injury excuse in 2015 Finals but still winning - that's what Dwight did to the 66-win Cavs.

Every top 20 all-time candidate will have an organic juggernaut by Year 6 or 7 like Jokic, Curry, Giannis, MJ or Lebron.. The difference is that after Year 7, Lebron gave up on the organic learning curve (chemistry) and pursued a talent-based approach to winning thereafter (team-hopping, all-star team strategy).. He began teaming up with opposing franchise players, so imagine if Jokic hand-picked the top two 1st options in the West to team up with - and then imagine that he still got credit for winning the conference after that - that's lebron's whole career (manufactured fraud).]

it's simply better to be the perennial favorite that loses once in a while (mj), then the perennial underdog that wins once in a while (lebron)

one caliber is obviously superior and wins much more than the other, and MJ could achieve this higher caliber (perennial favorite), while Lebron-ball cannot (perennial Finals underdog regardless of cast)

For what exactly?... Following around a loser?

Plus he cannot match the Last Dance because there's so much similar content already like "The Shop" and tons of other similar content - so Lebron's doc will be an extension of stuff that's already out there, whereas the Last Dance was literally my first look at MJ in full HD for extended period - it was pretty amazing.

Accordingly, Lebron will get far less views than MJ just like his games do




Bron-ball has always been good enough to carry his teams over average to non-elite competition like the Clippers without George - any top 20 all-time player can do this

It's the top 5 SRS or Finals teams that Bron-ball can't beat without crazy scoring help from teammates - he never beat a top 5 SRS or Finals team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick (never carried bed-wetting teammates over top teams) - i.e. he lost to the #4 SRS Magic with 18 on 38% from Mo, whereas MJ routinely beat top 5 SRS or Finals teams with that crap or even worse from Pippen.




Some numbers for good measure:


09' Mo Williams vs #4 SRS Magic........... 18 on 38%....... #3 team defense..... lost

89' Scotie Pippen vs #1 SRS Cavs........... 15 on 40%...... #11 team defense.... won
97' Scotie Pippen vs #4 SRS Heat........... 16 on 39%........ #4 team defense.... won
98' Scotie Pippen vs #4 SRS Pacers........ 17 on 39%........ #9 team defense.... won
98' Scotie Pippen vs #3 SRS Jazz............. 16 on 41%........ #9 team defense.... won

96-98' Pippen entire playoffs............... 18 on 41%...... #1, #4, #9 defenses


TLDR: Jordan beat better teams than the 09' Magic with worse defenses than the 09' Cavs and less offensive help

Again, great shooters and offensive players allow GM's to fill out the team with cheap defenders, so guys like Mo and Curry sometimes give teams better defenses than bricklayers like Pippen, who require expensive offensive help.. Pippen needed guys like Kukoc, Kerr and Paxson, who couldn't play defense.

Lebron was lottery early in his career, just like Giannis, Durant or Curry - so Kyrie cannot be knocked for lottery seasons early in his career - the reality is that the Cavs inched better every year and were just good enough to attract Lebron back by 2014-15'.. There's a difference between a 20 and 33-win team

Regarding the "cancer" talk - that's mainstream media narrative designed to support the fake goat debate - how could a cancer outplay the league MVP and hit the biggest shot in history?.. Kyrie is just injury-prone, which cost him titles in 2015, 2021 and possibly even 2018 (you never know what happens in the Finals)

Your "analysis" is nothing beyond jerking off over Jordan's ppg.

If LeBron scores 15 points while triple teamed but assists 25 times your narrative would be that LeBron was "carried" by whoever scored the points, rather than LeBron was making the right basketball play.

I talk about assists a lot like how MJ averaged more assists than Lebron in the playoffs.. It was only when Curry's spacing era made offense easier for everyone from 2015 onwards that Lebron started averaging more assists than MJ in the playoffs..

Otherwise MJ averaged more assists through half their chips (85-93' vs 06-14') - most people don't realize that MJ averaged 35/7/7 compared to Lebron's 28/8/6 during these time periods.

Overall, Lebron averages 1-2 more assists than MJ for their careers, but he never reached 11 apg in the Finals and doesn't have a 25-game stretch of 30/9/11, and of course he averaged less assists in the playoffs thru half their chips.. fwiw Jordan was a goat-passer because he could achieve elite assists without dominating the ball or bringing the ball up like Bird - only MJ averaged 10 assists in a series without bringing the ball up or being the primary ball-handler.

Most importantly, there's the ball movement issue and the fact that MJ creates more assists by having a higher assisted rate - he's an assist target that teammates can assist, while Lebron is a ball-dominator that teammates rarely assist.. Since Lebron puts downward pressure on teammates' assists (he hogs the assists), his teams are low-assist teams that have non-elite ball movement.. This inferior brand of ball is why he wins less with more (the common thread in his last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists).

But back to your point - if Lebron was a 15/25 guy, he would be closer to Stockton, but instead he's a 27/7/7 guy, so that's a lesser version of Jordan (33/6/6 with less turnovers and superior brand of ball that wins more with less)

Unbeatable?! They went 7 games against choke artist Harden & old CP. If CP doesn't get hurt, they easily could've lost the series.

Lebron thought they were unbeatable, though, for sure. Lost by record margin, in the finals, the next round.

You're forgetting 2-time all-star Dennis Rodman that Jordan "got" to team up with!

Who doesn't want to play with a 36 year old malcontent who flies out to cut WCW wrestling fights during the NBA finals?!? But hey, he had 6 rebounds the game before so I guess he earned it.

Any answers to these simple questions?

No need to apologise, you didn’t touch the sides.

But you’re right: saying MJ had “no chance” of being a continuous all - nba player if he’d had the determination to keep playing after the lockout is wrong, As is the assumption he could easily if he had played, Again, the reality is he didn’t have the stomach to play for a coach other than Phil; and when he put himself in on a min for the team HE built with the coach HE chose he wasn’t up to the standard LeBron is at this age. So the weight of probabilities rests on the idea he wouldn’t / didn’t have it anymore. And he probably knew that himself.

The end of the Last Dance is hilarious tbf. This notion that MJ wanted to continue all along and he was denied the opportunity by ownership and he held it to himself for two decades plus only to make a big reveal in his documentary, And people bought this crap? lol

U think Lebron , with that team he played with to 66 wins, would had the same success in the west ?

lol to u for your pure speculation and thinking mj wouldn’t love to at least have a try to a 4 peat with the team he had …..

The bulls made the stupidest decision ever by a sport team breaking a championship by pure ego .
It ain’t mj ….

Stay on what’s factual .

Luka just turned 25.

Luka is a 4 time All-NBA 1st team member and been to the conference Finals while beating a 64 win team.

At the same age MJ had a grand total of 1 playoff win.

Luka is pacing fine.

Just because he has equity, doesn't mean he's guaranteed to get there. But to say he has zero equity is just stupid.

+1

Without pippen Jordan is a ncaa champion , Olympic champion , what did pippen ever won without mj ?
Jordan was 1-9 without Grant too .
And why u use all games played and not series results ?
0-3 ?
I’m not sure you want to start calculating like that ….

Playoff result Lebron 172W-102L -> .628
Miss playoffs 4times.
Series (41-12) -> .773

MJ. 118W-60L -> .663
Miss playoffs 2times
Series (30-7) -> .811

Grant was there in 94 and what happened when he left pippen in 95 ?
Barely break even ….until rusty mj came back.

By your logic , Seem Grant was better , without mj he did far better then pippen , even 1 ring more .

FWIW mj still played all 82 games in his last season on a bad knee and he played injured the year prior .

I think he had fire to do those things .
Especially compare to player today …

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot....years.html?m=1


But most importantly

We don’t know…
Maybe he wouldn’t play as long but might have accomplished even more with more years in aka 94-95 and 98 .

When he join the nba he was already a top 5 players in the league all nba second team and 6 in mvp race ….

Probably not 18 but surely before he did and it’s ok to aim at an education for couple years btw.

Today u can join the nba and be instant multi millionaire even if u fail while being young .
It ain’t the same time .