Yeah except the part where he says asking where LeBron ranks on the all time list means we hate him. That part was pretty ******ed.

Hint: we hate the LaSlappies and this completely obnoxious narrative that LeBron is the only player that matters in all of basketball. It’s a team sport and other things are interesting about basketball too.

Last night a perfect example of why the gaudy bulk numbers basically mean nothing.

Just completely owned by KD. How can he be the GOAT when he's not even the best player in the series?

I do think that needs answering.

Not so sure. In the Rockets for starters you have 2 hall of famers in Hakeem and Clyde. In the playoffs they rained 3's on you with:

Kenny Smith 42%
Mario Elie: 41%
Sam Cassel: 40%
Robert Horry: 40%

And I know the lined was shorter but Horry and Smith shot well from 3 on the extended line too.

I have no idea who would guard Hakeem today. But that year he goes 33/10/4 while being a blocking machine. If you give all those guys modern training methods they'd be freaks too.

This Warrior team is beatable. Chris Paul & Harden & and a bunch of role players just took them to 7!

That's one of the frustrating things about LeBron, imo. You can tell he doesn't think they have a chance to win -- just like he didn't think they would last year. Result? One gentleman's sweep; and most likely another out-right sweep.

Don't worry, though, LeBron is still going to get his numbers.

The reason the Cavs lost last night is because lebron got outplayed by KD. Lebrons teammates went 8-25 from 3, KDs teammates went 3-19 from 3. KLove put up 20/13 and Hood had a really good game off the bench, KDs next highest scoring teammate was curry with 11 points on 3-16.

MJ probably doesn't beat this warriors team, but he doesn't get swept either.

I agree with that. Cavs lost because KD went nuts and was by far the best player on the court last night.

Lebron did that in Game 1 and still lost. That’s the difference. Steph and KD have both had 1 awful game this series (Steph in particular last night) and it simply doesn’t matter because GSW is so stacked and they can pick up the slack. Lebron played OK for his standards last night, had some good moments (scored 12 in the 4th, 10 in non-garbage time), definitely passed out of switches too much. Still had a good game from an absolute standpoint but that’s simply not enough to win ever just being good....let alone putting up a stinker like Steph did last night.

Yeah, but GSW had McGee, Bell, Iggy and Livingston combine for 36 points on 16 of 22 shots--on mainly wide open looks and dunks. Cavs have to play perfectly to win or Lebron has to completely go off and it just isn't reasonable when the Warriors are sending 4 elite defenders at him all game (Green, KD, Iggy, Thompson) while KD keeps getting switched onto bums either due to team strategy or the fact that Lebron doesn't want to get gassed. The Warriors have the weapons to at least slow Lebron down, the Cavs don't unless they don't want any O out of Lebron.

Warriors are a sick team, Cavs aren't. Cavs with 1 stud scorer aren't prepared to go against the Warriors and 3 guys who can put up 40 any night. Love might be able to put up 40 but I'd much rather count on Klay/Curry to do it.

I don't understand how JR keeps getting the green light not only to shoot but play a ton of minutes. I guess he helped with Curry but jfc his O is terrible.

Yeah this is pretty much it. Margin of error is zero for Cleveland and they simply have to rely on Lebron to do too much.

1 point game down the stretch, KD GOATed while labronze slanked.

If bronbronze had Jordan's WIM, this series is 2-1 Cavs.

Lebron has played basically every minute this series and the last series. KD can rest. KD can take minutes off and his backups and other teammates can contribute. Lebron can't. Are you guys not paying attention at all? Lebron scored 51 and the Cavs still LOST. KD scores 43 and he's a god. This happened last year too even with Kyrie. Cavs just aren't built to beat the Warriors. Warriors are insanely stacked.

Self-ownage in this post.

Hellmuth--yeah I did appreciate KD's performance. Some of us are capable of objectivity, enjoying life, etc, etc. Maybe try it out. Maybe also notice how most of those people are not LBJ haters. Have a great Thursday.

All--It's easily forgotten how desperate the Dubs were 2 years ago. In 2015, they lost twice to LBJ in a series where the most massive scrubs played so many minutes that Matthew Dellavedova had to be hospitalized. In 2016, they lost to a very good LBJ led team. Draymond Green and his boys were so FREAKED OUT that they begged KD to join them. Now, imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. LBJ would be WRECKED by this thread. WRECKED. GSW had to stoop to this level because they were so afraid of him. Never forget that.

Because he's not literally the greatest basketball player to ever play the game. And that's ok.

LeBron takes every defensive possession off. The game was there to be won in both games, especially last night on your home floor and the last 6 minutes he was bang average.

the O doesn't run without lebron though. he literally can't do everything and the only reason they are here is because he has to do everything. it's a mess. against other teams it's possible for them to beat the opposing squad with that strategy. against the warriors who have a ton more talent than the cavs on both sides of the ball it's impossible. there's a reason the cavs were +1000 to start the series and it's not just lebron not playing D every play it's because the warriors are insanely stacked and good.

They don't care bro. No need to try convincing them. We both know that if you swap KD(or prime MJ on GSW as a hypothetical) and Bron's teams that the Dubs still smash. LeBron and the dubs vs KD or Jordan's cavs? Dubs crush. Jordan and the dubs vs Bron or KD's cavs? Dubs crush. Replace LeBron on CLE with Jordan? Dubs crush.

The reasonable among us all know this. It is the essence of why team achievement should be diminished in favor of data-driven, evidence-backed advanced statistics that tell us which players are the most effective and impactful. The haters itt DO NOT CARE. They are trolls or morons. I hate myself for being in this cyber location. But I can't stop. It's so addicting for some reason. Lol me. Lol us.

KD was ridiculous - anyone who doesn't think so is a dumpster tard

Yeah KD was amazing. Couldn't miss. Not sure why I would be hating on his amazing play. Only player I love to hate on is Kobe and maybe Dray. Durant is a baller.

If LBJ goes to LAL, maybe the dumbest of all people--those that have Kobe > LBJ--will become a little less dumb. So that's nice.

I get it and agree. But he does take defense off. I completely understand why and I'm not arguing the reasons. Jordan was an elite defender though in addition to an elite offensive player.

And I get the warriors are great. But they weren't even the best team in the league this season

<3 We can come together over Dray hate

Jordan also played with other elite defenders and the entire team played elite D. Pippen is an alltime defender. Grant was great. Rodman was great and very good with the Bulls. None of the rest of the two dynasty teams except maybe Kerr were below average defenders.

Lebron hasn't really had an elite defensive team since the 2012 title team with the Heat (they were 3rd in Drat). The one thing that the Cavs and Heat have missed at times is great defenders both for the team and individual that the Bulls had in spades at times (Wade, Bosh and Battier were all very good defenders and so was Birdman but some of the rest of the team wasn't similarly no one on the Cavs except maybe Lebron has ever really been considered an elite defender although Shump wasn't bad at times). This year is likely the worst defensive team Lebron has ever had since maybe his first couple years in Cleveland. Lebron deserves some of the blame, but so does the system and effort especially in the regular season to the team.

As others have mentioned there is definitely failures when it comes to doing everything. Pretty sure Lebron knew this during his last tenure with the Cavs and why he joined up with 2 other stars so at least he wouldn't have to score every night for the Heat and when he returned to the Cavs.

Again valid point and you're not incorrect. However it doesn't change the fact that Jordan played both ends of the floor and at a high level. Like there's no way Jordan is guarding David West in this series even with other elite defenders on his team.

Lebron was a better defender than Jordan for a long time, I'm not sure he's capable of playing like that right now though, independently of teammates or context

Do the Cavs force 6-7 games this year with a healthy Kyrie?

This thread takes an interesting turn if the answer is yes.