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Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread
View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron
182 30.43%
MJ (Michael or Maple)
319 53.34%
Therapist
8 1.34%
George Mikan
5 0.84%
Shaq Attaq
21 3.51%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo)
13 2.17%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan
20 3.34%
"Roger Murdock"
3 0.50%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?)
9 1.51%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh)
18 3.01%

Today , 01:58 AM
Jordan definitely higher at home for steals and blocks. Checked the other steal leaders from the same year and it seems consistent that the steal/block stats were up when at home. So, he's still likely ahead and winning DPOTY either way.
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
Jordan definitely higher at home for steals and blocks. Checked the other steal leaders from the same year and it seems consistent that the steal/block stats were up when at home. So, he's still likely ahead and winning DPOTY either way.
I’m surprised this is how you’re choosing to go on this one tbh. “Stats were up when at home”, but not to the tune of nearly double.

Turns out the one simple trick on the LBJ / MJ debate is to go back and actually watch MJ’s games in full. The legend is bigger than the tape…which is really why eras shouldn’t be compared.
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLloyd
I’m surprised this is how you’re choosing to go on this one tbh. “Stats were up when at home”, but not to the tune of nearly double.

Turns out the one simple trick on the LBJ / MJ debate is to go back and actually watch MJ’s games in full. The legend is bigger than the tape…which is really why eras shouldn’t be compared.
Can you please give the name, or cite the source (website, article, book, whatever), of one single person who has stated Jordan’s “legend” is due to his steals+blocks total from the 1987-88 season?

Once you do that we can discuss if his inflated home steals+blocks stats are within normal ranges of variance of the extremely common phenomena of home stats being inflated.
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R.
Actually, in skimming parts of that article again he explicitly talks about home juicing (whether deliberate or just home fan bias) happening in multiple other cases. Nick Van Exel assists, Shaq blocks, raptors block record, etc.

It’s…. interesting that he somehow turns this into a Jordan vs LeBron thing. And that title. “Has LeBron James been chasing a ghost?”…. Since when has LeBron James been chasing Michael Jordan’s ‘87-‘88 steal+block total?
I've never understood why in pro sports the home team and not the league is in charge of scoring. We wouldn't let them pick referees and umpires. In the second half of his career Derek Jeter could hit a routine ground ball through a fielders legs in Yankee Stadium and it would be called a hit.
And there's way more wiggle room in basketball for fake stats than in baseball.

I'm not sure if it's still the case but I remember in the NBA the home team was also in charge of the clock. The last play of the Spurs Knicks finals in 1999 is really hilarious. The Knicks were down by 1 or 2 with less than 2 seconds left and the clock didn't start for probably a full second once Spreewell got the ball..
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
I've never understood why in pro sports the home team and not the league is in charge of scoring. We wouldn't let them pick referees and umpires. In the second half of his career Derek Jeter could hit a routine ground ball through a fielders legs in Yankee Stadium and it would be called a hit.
And there's way more wiggle room in basketball for fake stats than in baseball.

I'm not sure if it's still the case but I remember in the NBA the home team was also in charge of the clock. The last play of the Spurs Knicks finals in 1999 is really hilarious. The Knicks were down by 1 or 2 with less than 2 seconds left and the clock didn't start for probably a full second once Spreewell got the ball..
Agree 100%. Makes no sense to have the home team in charge of clock and keeping stats.

Careful bringing up Derek Jeter though, you’re gonna get LeBron fans to put in months of research to discredit his hit totals to ensure he’s ahead on the GOAT athlete list. Just kidding (or am I?).
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 10:37 AM
IMO, someone needs to create an AI bot that mines Michael Jordan data for errors and inconsistencies, and creates chatbot generated talking points and posts it to yahoo sports. Call it BronNet.

Maybe one day it will become sentient and assimilate mullen and LuckyLloyd. Kind of like the Borg. Their first model can be the T-NBA2k-800. Modeled after Arnold Schwarzenephew.
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R.
Interesting article.

Can someone link the games in question where the steal+block totals were most egregiously incorrect?

Are the home/away splits about equal for every other player?

Yeah good luck with that.. They supposedly watched a grand total of 5 games and then tried to describe the possessions of 1 game in particular from February 15, 1988 vs Hawks... The fact that it was so painstaking for them to watch 5 games is further evidence that channels like Thinking Basketball that purport to watch hundreds of MJ games and have detailed possession data are complete bs.. Then there's the "done with the 90's" and 'can't go left" campaigns... All of this is a Klutch Sports-fueled effort to make the biggest loser in NBA history perceived as the greatest player of all-time.
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
Jordan definitely higher at home for steals and blocks. Checked the other steal leaders from the same year and it seems consistent that the steal/block stats were up when at home. So, he's still likely ahead and winning DPOTY either way.

The 88' Bulls were 20-21 on the road and 32-9 at home - that's the biggest disparity in home/road of anyone on the DPOY list from the article, except for Ron Artest, who had the exact same road/home records.

So I think ultimate issue is that there could be any number of reasons for a player as abnormal as Jordan to have abnormal levels in any stat, let alone a stat as obscure as the difference in home stocks vs road stocks.. Accordingly, try this on for size:

4 steals per game for the goat demon like MJ isn't surprising in peak Chicago Stadium during the 1 year that MJ was going for DPOY - he had maximum energy management requirements that year, so it would make sense to offset the lack of crowd boost on the road by gambling less and getting less steals.. But at home, he could go crazy and let the crowd carry him..

Again, any number of reasons - this could be one of them, so it's a meaningless article that has a bunch of words but nothing concrete... Now if they would post the links to the games and question and be so kind as to time stamp the botched steals, then that would be a start.. Otherwise, lol
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote
Today , 01:19 PM
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Here's Haberstroh telling Broussard about the key play that he found horrific and galvanized him - apparently, the Bulls' center Mike Brown made a deflection along with MJ, and MJ came up with the ball - it angered Haberstroh that MJ was credited with a steal, although we don't even know if he was - here's Haberstroh complaining about the play on Chris Broussard's show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh7M5z_caGk&t=28m25s


And here's the actual play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn-Q4u-5mZI&t=04m45s

As you can see, Mike Brown tips the ball but MJ does too, and MJ comes up with it - we don't know if this was recorded as a steal for MJ but it certainly could've been.. This is standard, but Haberstroh considers this egregious.. This is the kind of crap that is being used to take MJ down.

Haberstroh works for Klutch and never denied this in the interview with Broussard - when he was accused of working with Klutch by Broussard's sidekick (Ephram), he didn't deny it and instead deflected.. Then Broussard actually admitted that he's represented by Klutch - this stuff is AMAZING... TLDR: don't believe the stuff in your history books kids
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Last edited by fallguy; Today at 01:25 PM.
Wemby > Antman > Jordan > Lebron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread Quote

      
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