Probably because he's lying

**** me, can you go back to trolling. I'm at work and on my phone. I'm not prepared to link **** and have an actual discussion right now lol

take your time


also, i'd prefer you use your words than to be buried in links, but you do you

I was born and raised in Georgia in the 80s and never saw blackface or heard of anyone doing blackface

LMAO <3 this stuff

I never have worn blackface, but have seen it a couple times at parties - at least an Obama or two. (Does that count?)

You want to measure the social acceptability of blackface by polling only those who wear blackface? Don't think that would mean much. It's a simple poll to examine whether the "everyone knows it's wrong" theory is accurate.

The centrism fetishists talk a lot about how both sides need to compromise, but what is a reasonable compromise on Donald Trump's concrete wall that he wishes to built from sea to shining sea. Is it a concrete wall, but only along half of the border? Is it a wall that is only half as tall? Is it a non-concrete wall?

These all seem silly, so I think a real compromise is that Trump gets his #1 priority only if Democrats get something high on their list. A real compromise would be trading the wall for Medicare-for-all. Or letting Trump have his wall if he pays for it from the tax ideas of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Elizabeth Warren.

Would the centrism fetishists ever consider trying to broker a deal like that?



And what would they consider a reasonable compromise on the appropriate wearing of blackface?

(Given the number of letters and the topic, I'm assuming the censored word is the n-word)

Yes imo, because nearly every black person is going to say they feel uncomfortable being called that word. I feel like that, like blackface, is pretty settled. There might be a few exceptions, but as a basically universal rule, if you're white and you call a black person the n-word, you're gonna have a bad time, and you're gonna deserve it.

Crazy that you brought up dreads, because the difference between blackface and locks is part of what I've been thinking about during this. I recall pretty vividly a conversation from a few years ago that I was on the periphery of between 5 people at work, CJ, a black man mid-20s who has locks, Cheryl, a black woman mid 40s, myself, and two others that don't matter. It was right after this story happened

I remember that conversation for a few things. CJ saying "No one ought to get harassed over some locks", Cheryl essentially saying that someone needed to teach the girl how to behave, and then when they were joking about how white people could even make locks, I mentioned that when I was younger I used to have shoulder length hair, and Cheryl saying my hair would "probably end up looking like pig tails". They laughed for what felt like 30 minutes and she still teases me about it to this day...

Other than that burn, I took from it that they didn't really care about locks. They rolled their eyes at the entire thing. I've seen her leave our office in tears and frustration after the Philando Castile video came out, and besides that we've known each other for years, she's never one to hide her opinion. I genuinely don't think she or he care at all if any other race wears locks.

I asked a coworker tonight about the issue and he had a different take. He said he didn't really feel anything about locks, but seeing people like the Kardashians or other celebrities wearing dreads and then appropriating that look as their own bothered him. (Makes sense to me. Take advantage of the culture, don't give any credit or anything back. Not cool)

So, yeah, the 2nd half of your post is where you and I differ. I don't pretend that my friends/coworkers speak for the entire population, and I take you at your word when you say that you've had friends moved to tears by their experiences with appropriation.

I think the difference is that when I put myself if your shoes, I see myself staying silent until someone says "Hey, that hairstyle bothers me" at which point I can back them up. When I flip the roles, I see you jumping in and "calling out appropriation" in situations that may only be offensive to a much smaller portion of the community. In that case, I see it as a white person effectively trying to impose their values on a group that doesn't share them. If my friends don't view locks as racist, my saying "Hey good job on the dreads dude. Thanks for just being a little racist!" sounds incredibly condescending coming from me.

I know that we don't agree, you've had your experiences and I've had mine, they're clearly different, and I can move past that, but I would just offer that graph you linked showed only 22% of black respondents said it was never appropriate to "wear traditional dress from a country or culture other than your own as part of a Halloween costume", essentially 1 in 5. That leaves a lot of room for people that I feel like might not want our help in deciding what's offensive to them

There has to be a balance. Too far to one side and the people with the vast majority of the platform and the power (whites) stay silent and wait for the "bootless man to lift up by his bootstraps". Go completely to the other and the side with the power and platform completely disregards and marginalizes the opinions of the minority groups they're trying to help raise up.

I guess on that specific point I am something of a centrist. We can't just say "Welp, the [minority] have to help themselves" because that's a conservative dodge that just excuses racism and no help being provided, but we can't be so sure of ourselves that we say "No, I know what you need, just let me do it".


No, I think you're exactly right. Just like everyone else, I'm the product of my experiences, that why I tried to include polling data. Clearly, the poll I opted for was...not great, but that was an attempt to reach beyond my experiences. I've said several times, "This person/that person doesn't speak for everyone" and tried to include multiple sources/polls/whatever

Even being from Vancouver, you're still just the sum of your time there and the places you've traveled.

In my post above this I tried to include Greg's data in the hopes we could use that since he posted it and I can't be accused of bringing the broken **** that time.

Probably to the extent it matches up with their goals, sure. That's kind of my point tho, to what level are "dbag activist whites" aligned with "mainstream" minority groups (fully understanding that there will be no consensus across those groups). I think we all are on the big stuff (Don't use racial slurs, don't wear KKK hoods, etc.) but I think there's probably much more disagreement when it comes to smaller issues.


I know it's my fault, but I can't understand how this isn't clear. I agree 100% that nearly all black people agree wearing blackface is wrong. That's never been up for debate.

It's not the big stuff that I'm talking about. It's not the N-word, blackface, or things like that, it's the smaller issues like the one's mentioned above that I've been talking about.

I've said over and over that everyone agrees, blackface is bad. And in face, I'm saying over and over that I'm not "the god moderate... here to declare what should and shouldn't matter to everyone". I'm saying I should sit quietly while they tell me what matters to them, and then I should offer help where I can.

Yes, I have two bachelor's degrees. One I actually use(ish) for my career and the other is in Economics and Political Science. I'll cop to being 10+ years removed from college tho so if there's going to be a test I'm going to struggle.

Since this first date is going so well, do you have any hobbies?

I'm fine with trading a wall for a super-climate change fighting plan + medicare for all combo. Hell, I'd even throw in a conditional 1st too.

Holliday, the problem of agenda's influencing research is real. But eliminate it and nothing changes. Pew already exists. Their mission is more or less to explain the issues using science in a nonpartisan way, right? No one cares. Everyone wants it a certain way and they can get it their way from Newsmax or Socialist Worker and everyone in between.

Like, it matters in places like this where we actually care about evidence. But not to the nation as a whole.

Also, soft sciences aren't all bad. It's a lot easier to measure physical things than concepts like "social inequality" or "media's influence on viewer fear levels" or whatever. That doesn't mean we shouldn't measure them. Still, only some in the social sciences are "good" at research compared to nearly all in the hard sciences. But there are a lot of talented scientists doing work in the social sciences.

lol, you would have to be the stupidest mother ****er in the world to support this piece of ****.

Seems like I forgot I was trying to be positive this year. Given recent developments, though, maybe that's just a doomed resolution.

I completely agree with your take while at the same time finding the relative "grain of salt" with which these kinds of studies are taken to be almost always radically inappropriately sized; either taken at face value or (essentially) presumed to be the opposite of true, depending on which side you are on. While (since we're all speculating about compromise) I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, I find it *way* too much in the middle instead of clearly on the science side.

Semi-seriously, I think this study may be guilty of plagiarism anyway:




But I am pretty down on the hard sciences at the moment as well. Bunch of breakthrough treatments with airtight explanations of why they work with (once you dig into the details) goddamned 87% failure rates. "Failure rate" being any rational measure of a tolerable level of survival--which is, apparently, either
*The source of a serious intellectual disagreement between ourselves
*They are being less than intellectually honest

"Less than honest"--see what happens when I try to be positive? And I feel like I'm making this sound good! And d

No there doesn't.

I side with MLK in his claim that the problem is white moderates who favor order over justice. The left should promise culture war and insist there will be no social peace, no social order, so long as injustice remains, that conservatives will have to impose an authoritarian, police state to get what they want. If whites go in that direction, as they did by voting for Trump, then the country will destroy itself from within, as it is doing now. Either way, the regime will fall eventually so long as you take away the center where people can fool themselves into a continuation of the status quo.

So the left should push hard on what is derisively labeled as PC culture and force confict that makes centrists uncomfortable. That includes pushing on things where the majority doesn't necessarily agree yet.

I don't want to go all "false flag" or "wag the dog", but good job Trump by taking the news off of your National Emergency by killing some Chicago warehouse workers and cops.

First of all I do think there's a "difference" between such a costume of someone you like and, say, the govnah's yearbook picture. I...still don't get why you wouldn't just spend the $20 on an Obama mask instead, like it's one thing that Fred Armison has a similar facial structure and needs to not look like a jackass wearing a halloween mask (did your Obamas even *try* to copy his speaking voice and mannerisms?) but whatever. I'm not really judging any of the "non-speaking background" actors being spraypainted in what sounds like a cartoon assembly line on the set of 'Alladin', for instance. Perhaps Disney, but I already hate them for the copyright mutilation in the name of preventing Mickey Mouse porn.

Second of all, it still leaves one open to a black person at the party (bear with me) coming up to you and saying, "Hi Bob. I see you are wearing blackface as part of a Barack Obama costume. Very amusing. Did you know blackface was a 200 year-old minstrel tradition of viciously mocking black people as an inherently inferior race and demeaning black culture? Or did you realize the words "Jim Crow" as in Jim Crow laws and the Jim Crow era were terms borrowed from a popular blackface minstrel character, a caricature of a clumsy, dimwitted black slave? Knowing it is considered "controversial", did you just assume there was no reason why, and not bother to check?" Or something like that. Not a very cool conversation to be on the other side of.

No, I want to judge the social acceptability of blackface by the standards of people who are smart. Trying to be clear about that. I'd settle just for people who are informed about the issue and not the especially stupid and antisocial.

I don't think I ever said "everyone knows it's wrong" myself since I think the vast majority (95%) of "everyone" is irretrievably stupid. I can't possibly be expected to predict what the Stupids will think--shouldn't be asked.

What I'm saying is "these people know it is *not* wrong"...how, exactly? Are they sitting around talking about blackface in bars or churches or at sporting events or something? I know how the Smarts got their opinions (typically involving reading) but I'm unclear if there's something like a recurring Fox News segment or some russian facebook trolling planting this idea. I mean I'd like to think it's not just reflexively for those sweet liberal tears or because you never want to lose a way of demeaning black people, but what else is there?

Feel like pages of arguing about blackface at a time where "I don't need to do this" is part of the speech declaring a national emergency in an effort to circumvent congressional power is kind of a low priority discussion.

On the bright side: If this is a-ok now then hopefully we're only 23 months away from a national emergency being declared to install healthcare for all and climate change laws

To be fair some of us are nitpicking studies and laying the groundwork for disenfranchising the stupid.

gl with that, unless the composition of the SC changes


plus the Dems are too afraid of the donors & msm to attempt that


related: waste of skin Howard Schultz currently trying to blackmail them into perpetual sucktitude

we'll all be dead soon enough, try to enjoy the ride

Sadly I needed the "hopefully" qualifier there because you're right

dying in prison getting a presidential pardon to own the libs

Assuming he just serves out his term, last day of the Trump presidency is going to be an exciting sweat to see who gets pardoned and who gets the shaft.

for us, sure


for them it'll just be a matter of meeting Fredo's quote

Holliday, can I ask where you developed this opinion from? Is it personal experience or your work with data analysis? I'm assuming you don't see IQ or anything similar as valid since 5% of people being smart is pretty far removed from the usual normalized curve that gets thrown around with less than a percent rating as actual geniuses.