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Old 07-22-2010, 11:22 PM   #2451
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK View Post
Wlad - Peter II rumoured for September on ESPN after Povetkin pulled out.
An OK matchup considering whats out there. Haye is too much of a ***** to fight him even while calling him out for a couple of years, and i have no idea wtf povetkins problem is. Hes been the #1 contender for the title for a while now and never wanted the fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippy View Post
meh.. Schaefer didn't really add anything. If we want the truth then it has to come from Ross Greenburg, but he'll probably remain silent. It's just hard for me to believe that there were no negotiations of any sort.

As for PW, again, it all comes down to the money. High risk, low reward. I know it sucks, but that's how it is. Plus, PW is managed by Al Haymon.

I don't want to see PW go down to 147 anyways. I think he'd be too drained. PW vs. Martinez II should get made.
Schaefer is biased, no doubt. But him standing behind the statement that there never was any negotiations bring more validity to it than it coming directly from Ellerbe.
As i have said before, i have no ***** idea who is telling the truth, but it is shady to say the least. I think it was just a marketing ploy to get Pacquiao in a good light, that's all.

PW being adviced by Haymon shouldn't matter. I'm sure he would get Paul that fight, there is no reason for him not to. If Paul wins they can easily set up Floyd vs Paul and bring in the big bucks.
High risk, low reward.. According to who? Really, the fighters that claim to be the best should fight the best. Yes PW is a tougher fight if you compare money with risk than him fighting slowpoke Margacheatho, but there is no greater fight bar Mayweather for Pacquiaos legacy in this sport.

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Originally Posted by trippy View Post
I just saw the Shane Moseley and Sergio Mora are going to fight in Sept. on PPV. WTF? Is that fight even going to generate 100,000 buys?
Yeah that's not a PPV fight. Mosley pre getting WTFembarassed by Mayweather were not even a draw.
Couple 100k sounds reasonable for the fight, but i would rather see it on a free B.A.D show.
Maybe banking on Mora to bring some mexican $$$$? Hes not really a draw tho, is he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddiePlaysO8 View Post
More importantly, it looks like Juanma Lopez will be fighting Rafa Marquez in Sept. I think Rafa wins.

Mosley and Mora who?
Nooo.. Juanma is unstoppable!
Will be a nice fight tho. Marquez always brings it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:56 AM   #2452
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pacquiaos fight should be set by Monday.
It's either Cotto or Margarito, and it will probably be at a 150 catchweight for the 154 title.

I'm not gonna say anything mean. I just don't get how he doesn't get more **** because of this.
The king of catchweight and drainage tactics.(poor morales)

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29466
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:45 AM   #2453
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

undefeated, he doesn't catch more **** because he's been actively trying to set up the mayweather fight to no avail

he tried to set up the big fight. doesn't change that he's fighting a very meh opponent, but it helps deflect criticism.

Also, more of the blame goes to Arum imo. Floyd makes all his own decisions and everybody knows it. Floyd has the whole persona built up on purpose, 'Money' Mayweather, etc. He's in charge and he loves to flaunt it. Pac is kind of the opposite, he prefers to chill in the Philippines and have nothing to do with negotiations. He basically tells Arum to get a fight and then fights. It's another reason why he generally gets less blame when fights fall apart. It's not Pac actually deciding on Cotto/Cheato. It's Arum, and everybody knows it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:13 AM   #2454
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by Undefeated View Post
Pacquiaos fight should be set by Monday.
It's either Cotto or Margarito, and it will probably be at a 150 catchweight for the 154 title.

I'm not gonna say anything mean. I just don't get how he doesn't get more **** because of this.
The king of catchweight and drainage tactics.(poor morales)

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29466
Please name some other catchweight or drainage fights Pac had. I agree the Margo fight sucks but Margo is a welterweight, its not like hes gonna be hurt at the weight. Was it a joke that one of Voids precious belts came from beating a part time Oscar and another came from beating Gatti. How about Floyd forcing Marquez to come up in weight and fighting Hatton at 147 when all hed done previously was get a gift over Collazo.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:16 AM   #2455
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by Undefeated View Post


Schaefer is biased, no doubt. But him standing behind the statement that there never was any negotiations bring more validity to it than it coming directly from Ellerbe.
As i have said before, i have no ***** idea who is telling the truth, but it is shady to say the least. I think it was just a marketing ploy to get Pacquiao in a good light, that's all.
Interesting article from Thomas Hauser.
http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2145/haus..._negotiations/
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:49 AM   #2456
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Agree w Hauser that with Arum saturating the boxing news market for two weeks with news of the deadline, ESPN covering the countdown and the Mayweather camp saying NOTHING, it's stretching the imagination to believe that there were no negotiations going on the whole time. I have to think his side of the truth is FAR closer to accurate than 50%.

I heard a rumour about Mayweather - Cotto. That's an excellent fight that I'd give him props for taking (as long as he didn't try some bs like trying to bend things in his favour via weight limit demands). Outside of Pac, I think the best fights for Mayweather go something like this:

Williams (he is really hard to rank though) > Martinez at 160 > Cotto at 154 > Martinez at 154 > Bradley at 147 > Berto at 147 > Cintron at 154

Cheato is up there too outside of the non wanting to give a payday to that p.o.s. Then there's a couple of really promising 140lbers (Alexander and Khan) that could make good fights for him in 12 to 18 months time. Wouldn't hate seeing him against Pavlik either (who is rumoured to stay at 160lbs after all), but then you don't have the lustre of the mw belt.
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:07 AM   #2457
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Mayweather-Cotto makes no sense to me. They would have to deal with Bob Arum and Pacquiao has already knocked him out. Floyd probably makes more money fighting Cotto than Williams or Martinez, but if he wants to make the most money then he should just fight Pacquiao. Floyd also says he's on "vacation" so making a fight this year would look like he ducked Pacquiao and taking a fight in early 2011 would push a potential Mayweather-Pacquiao fight to late 2011.

This is what I hope happens: Pacquiao destroys Margarito in November, Floyd goes on his mini vacation, and fights Pacquiao in April or May. I don't really want to see Floyd fight anyone else since that could push back his fight with Pacquiao.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:15 AM   #2458
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Hall-Power tonight. quien wins?
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:30 PM   #2459
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
undefeated, he doesn't catch more **** because he's been actively trying to set up the mayweather fight to no avail

he tried to set up the big fight. doesn't change that he's fighting a very meh opponent, but it helps deflect criticism.

Also, more of the blame goes to Arum imo. Floyd makes all his own decisions and everybody knows it. Floyd has the whole persona built up on purpose, 'Money' Mayweather, etc. He's in charge and he loves to flaunt it. Pac is kind of the opposite, he prefers to chill in the Philippines and have nothing to do with negotiations. He basically tells Arum to get a fight and then fights. It's another reason why he generally gets less blame when fights fall apart. It's not Pac actually deciding on Cotto/Cheato. It's Arum, and everybody knows it.
1) Actively trying to set up a mayweather fight? How?
Do you mean the first time around when his camp said OKNP in regards to random testings and then backing out? Rejecting the 14-day cutoff compromise that they apparently have no problem with now? When team Pacquiao canceled the first negotiation?

Or do you mean this second time when there were not even any direct negotiations camp to camp (and according to one side, none at all indirectly even), and when they knew Mayweathers trainer had an upcoming courtdate that very likely will send him to prison thus making the fight pretty much impossible?
They both are to be blamed for this fight not happening. You just said it was just a PR war at this point. Why was 14-days cutoff not OK the first time around, but when they(he) knows Floyd won't accept the fight (and has taken the offer off the table) he is perfectly fine with the terms?

2) I don't agree with this. Manny is responsible for every decision that gets made and he himself is the one with the final decision. We have heard countless of times about Bob Arum taking trips to the ph. to get Manny to agree to various points.
Floyd, just as Manny, makes decisions with the help of advisors and managers. I don't get how this should warrant his actions.
Besides, Floyd never got the benefit of the doubt when he was signed with Top rank either.

Bob Arum is a huge part in this whole mess, but ultimately, it's Pacquiao that is responsible.

But if you are saying Manny is managed by a bunch of clowns, then i would have to agree.
So is Floyd fwiw. I seriously suspect some people in his camp is borderline ******ed.

May i ask how you would feel if the fight falls through in 2011 because Floyd wants a 60/40 or 55/45 money split? Would you blame Floyd for the fight not happening?
I bet you 9/10 would, no matter the FACT that Floyd has consistantly outsold Manny and actually deserves the bigger split. Why would anyone want to leave 5-10 million dollars on the table?

This is part of the problem i have with Manny, his camp and his "blindfolded" fans. He is obviously a fantastic fighter, but his image is that of a pure churchgoing saint, when in fact he is one of the biggest arrogant dbag egomaniacs in the sport. Kind of like Oscar De la Hoya. I really don't get it when people say he is one of the most humble and likeable athlete around.

Sorry for the long incoherent ramblings.
/rant


Quote:
Originally Posted by UFgators50 View Post
Please name some other catchweight or drainage fights Pac had. I agree the Margo fight sucks but Margo is a welterweight, its not like hes gonna be hurt at the weight. Was it a joke that one of Voids precious belts came from beating a part time Oscar and another came from beating Gatti. How about Floyd forcing Marquez to come up in weight and fighting Hatton at 147 when all hed done previously was get a gift over Collazo.
Ehh.. Erik Morales, De la Hoya, Miguel Cotto and the upcoming Margarito fight for example? Trying to get Mosley to agree to a 142lbs weightlimit?
Erik drained to a ghost and forced to fight at a weight he couldn't make anymore. Also a 500k penalty per pound overweight.
De la Hoya, you all know the story. Coming in to the fight 20lbs under his normal rehydrated weight and weighing less than Pacquiao.
When Floyd fights a tuneup vs JMM it is such a big deal, but when Pacquiao fights a guy coming up two weightclasses for a title (Oscar Larios) no one has anything to say.

I like how you try to compare Pacquiaos actions to that of Floyds. The difference between those being? Floyd gets an overload of **** thrown his way while Pacquiao gets close to none. You only prove my point.
Also, not everything Pacquiao does has to be compared to Floyd. He is a unique person and his actions should be judged based on the same criteria as everyone else.

I was gonna post a loooong ang boring compilation of points, arguments and facts, but i really cant be bothered with it anymore.
This discussion is so tiresome and it has been ongoing nonstop for over a year now. That is the reason i quit posting on boxing-forums, and i fault myself for not being able to control my impulses to post about the same old tired bull**** in this thread as well.
I will try to not get engaged in these types of moronic discussions again until it is relevant. Nothing can be said that hasn't already been bickered and dissected to death already elsewhere.

I will post a link to several videos that will explain the shadiness of Pacquiaos behavior (incl his camp) just as well as i would be able to in more than a thousand words.

Everyone interested in Pacquiao or the drama revolving this, hopefully, upcoming superfight should watch these videos to at least get a glimpse of the often not told side of the story. At the very least, they are somewhat entertaining.
If you disagree with anything, feel free to do so. But dispute it with facts or at the very least, logic. Needless to say, i didn't make these videos, and no i am not about to go into a lengthy debate about minor points.

Vid 1; The excuses when losing to Morales, the ducking of Raheem to fight a drained Morales etc..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wg3XgmDSxI

Vid 2; Mosley, Cotto, Oscar, Hatton.. Dispelling the myth of Floyd only fighting smaller fighters while Pacquiao is the "little guy".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxtKlVQqCU

Vid 3; Some of the controversies surrounding the negotiation for Pac vs May, Roach talking about RANDOMDRUGTESTS?NP!, Roach's past history with steroids and a little bit of this and that..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7RAg1shM0

Vid 4; The fights vs JMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJZoCnqNRM


Bonusvid; Pacquiaos die hard fans often cite Bert Sugars opinion on his place in boxing history (best southpaw ever etc) and here we get to see how confusing his opinions can be at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZnc4sQKaY

None is perfect, especially not Floyd or Manny. All i ask for is to be fair and give props when its due but also criticism.
For Manny to now once again fight a catchweight titlefight is so weak i can't even describe it. You might say it doesn't matter, but it does. Especially when a man (pac) tries to use the amount of divisional championships as a marketing, and legacy building tool.
People will just see "OMG8DIVISIONWORLDCHAMP" without actually realising atleast three of those were pure BS. Two catchweight titles and one paperchamp vs the weakest possible champ at the weight (David Diaz).

This video demonstrates how i view these fanatical Manny Pacquiao fans that tilts me to no end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAynrE91tYs

Oh well. As i said, i should have known better than to get dragged into these kinds of discussions again. It's just tiresome and a huge waste of time.
Hopefully this thread can focus on actual boxing and not only the Pacquiao vs Floyd drama. Because im sick of it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:00 PM   #2460
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Manny gets less blame because he didn't make unusual demands of the other fighter on the doorstep of the first threatening fight he had.

He also doesn't get blame because he's not the one shifting the goalposts so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undefeated View Post
May i ask how you would feel if the fight falls through in 2011 because Floyd wants a 60/40 or 55/45 money split? Would you blame Floyd for the fight not happening?
I bet you 9/10 would, no matter the FACT that Floyd has consistantly outsold Manny and actually deserves the bigger split. Why would anyone want to leave 5-10 million dollars on the table?
Again, this is the wrong way of thinking. Ignoring for the moment how difficult it is to compare sales numbers for fighters (temporal issues, etc.), this is a mega fight.

This fight will do more buys than any other fight on the table for each fighter. The fight is bigger than the sum of its parts and in that case, it should be a 50/50 split.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:25 PM   #2461
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by Richard Tanner View Post
Manny gets less blame because he didn't make unusual demands of the other fighter on the doorstep of the first threatening fight he had.

He also doesn't get blame because he's not the one shifting the goalposts so much.
Even if this is even remotely correct, what is the explanation for before the Mayweather negotiation? Or was Pacquiao and boxing invented in december of 09?
How is Pacquiaos behavior in any way connected with Floyd? We are talking about Mannys fight vs Margarito at a ****ing catchweight once again, and im quite sure that's not something Floyd made Pacquiao do.

He made unusual demands before his rematch with Morales fwiw.
Floyd was also close to 50/50 in regards to odds vs Diego Corrales. Same with Genaro Hernandez(tho this one im not 100% sure). So im not sure where you took the second statement from.. Imaginationland?

Shifting what goalpost? What are you talking about?
I take it you mean the drug testing demand since that is the only demand we know that Mayweather made?

His first claim was for 0-day cutoff. Roach is on tape (linked above) saying this is fine.
Then their team backs out of that, demands 24-days and threatens to cancel the negotiations. Mayweather is then on live tv saying he offered them 14-days cutoff (which Bob Arum lied about not happening even tho the impartial mediator said it actually was offered).

Refused...
Pacquiao cancels the negotiations and signs instantly to fight Clottey.

Mayweather says that deal is off the table in february and keep saying the same thing to this day.

Now, 7 months later, Manny finds the compromise of 14-days acceptable?

Soo... Floyd moves what goalpost now?

Quote:
Again, this is the wrong way of thinking. Ignoring for the moment how difficult it is to compare sales numbers for fighters (temporal issues, etc.), this is a mega fight.

This fight will do more buys than any other fight on the table for each fighter. The fight is bigger than the sum of its parts and in that case, it should be a 50/50 split.
Numbers don't lie. Pacquiaos team (well... roach) said they chose Cotto over Mosley because they could make more money with him than Mosley. Incorrect, i guess.

This doesn't matter even remotely. Mayweathers equity in this fight is clearly larger than Pacquiaos.
Pacquiao will make substantially more from this one fight than he did in 09 and 10 combined. Even at 45 or 40%.

It's about what is fair and what fighters should be able to demand. Otherwise, what's the point in having negotiations?
You guys are quick to throw out ******ed lines alá "OMG Mayweather BLATANTLY DUCKING!!!" even when you have no clue about if the negotiations actually has taken place or not. Not to mention "you" expecting Floyd to fight the biggest fight of the last 20 years without his trainer. Jesus ****ing christ.
But Manny being unreasonable is easily dismissed as irrelevant. Pff.

Nevermind. I'm over repeating these rants for the 50th time. Watch the videos i linked, draw your own conclusion. Do whatever you want. This is the final post i'll make on the subject for a long while (i hope) unless someone come out with something fresh.

Last edited by Undefeated; 07-23-2010 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:35 PM   #2462
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Mayweather v Martinez would be sweet
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:40 PM   #2463
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Undefeated, I think you need to stop thinking about Mayweather and Pacquiao.
I hope my avatar tilts you

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Mayweather v Martinez would be sweet
That would be interesting but Martinez probably isn't going to give Floyd enough reward.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:41 PM   #2464
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Speculations are over. Manny Pacquiao will fight the cheater without a license Antonio Margarito. Most Likely in Mexico, says Bob Arum to Yahoo Sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_yl...argarito072310

Let's hope the BS title (how is Manny and Margarito ranked at 154?) atleast wont be ridiculed by having a catchweight limit.

------

Funny little nugget i found while digging teh interwebz.
Margarito said in an interview in february that Bob Arum promised him a fight vs Manny Pacquiao in November 2010.

Spoiler:


http://www.myboxingfans.com/2010/02/...ar-at-hearing/

Put on your tinfoil hats.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EddiePlaysO8 View Post
Undefeated, I think you need to stop thinking about Mayweather and Pacquiao.
I hope my avatar tilts you
Lol agreed.

Nah, your avatar is ceeewl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
And Mayweather won't?
I reversed his argument. I think it is an irrelevant one.

Last edited by Undefeated; 07-23-2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason: added
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:43 PM   #2465
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by Undefeated View Post
Pacquiao will make substantially more from this one fight than he did in 09 and 10 combined. Even at 45 or 40%.
And Mayweather won't?
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:59 PM   #2466
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
fanatical Manny Pacquiao fans
read my last post ITT and read your last few, and tell me who sounds fanatical.

you probably should take a break from posting for a little while.
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:10 PM   #2467
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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read my last post ITT and read your last few, and tell me who sounds fanatical.

you probably should take a break from posting for a little while.
Never once said you were a Pacquiao fanatical (you might be, i don't know).
Feel free to refute any points i have made. I think every point i have made has bearings.

You are right. I will take a break from posting in this thread. I wouldn't want to waste my time, or ruin the good old circle jerk you got going.
I will keep reading tho, and hopefully there will be more interesting posts(think PartygirlUK who actually seem to like boxing) and less uneducated oneliners ala "OMG BLATANT DUCK!".
adios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
later

we'll all miss your unbiased analysis of all the reasons you dislike pacquiao.
As i said. Atleast refute the reasons why i feel Pacquiao should be criticised if you feel i'm being unfair. Oh well, get back to discussing Pacquiao vs Margarito at a catchweight. Should be fun for ya.
Thread is fine as long it is filled with biases analysis (rather oneliners) of the reasons everyone dislikes Mayweather amirite?

Last edited by Undefeated; 07-23-2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason: guess it's more convenient debating with casual fans.. Easier to be right..
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:14 PM   #2468
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I was actually hoping that Cotto would fight Margarito again and beat the **** out of him.
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:14 PM   #2469
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

later

we'll all miss your unbiased analysis of all the reasons you dislike pacquiao.
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Old 07-24-2010, 01:16 AM   #2470
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

ive read some credible people say theyre SURE that green vs briggs was fixed.

Thoughts?

edit: holy ****ing **** I just saw the video. LMAO. Forget the question.

Last edited by Kirbynator; 07-24-2010 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:40 AM   #2471
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Cotto-Berto at Jr middleweight is going to be discussed for the fall. Fight will be on HBO. nice!
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:53 AM   #2472
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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ive read some credible people say theyre SURE that green vs briggs was fixed.

Thoughts?

edit: holy ****ing **** I just saw the video. LMAO. Forget the question.
epic question and edit sequence.

green was pissed. Did you catch the post fight interview?
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Old 07-24-2010, 09:52 AM   #2473
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

lol @ boxing

this is why the sport is a complete ****ing joke. the hands down two best fighters in their primes and they aren't gonna fight.
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:02 AM   #2474
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

He's going a little crazy but Undefeated is also the only guy in this thread who knows anything in depth about the Manny-Floyd negotiations.

I like Manny a lot more than Floyd but they are both egomaniacs and have both done their fair share to prevent this fight from happening.
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:44 AM   #2475
UFgators50
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 164
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

One thing I love about Void fans is how they post long essays about how Pac sucks and Floyd is so much better. If Pac sucks and is no match for Void then why wouldnt Void thank his lucky stars he can get a $40 mil payday against Pac and sign asap.

If you honestly think the 145 lb limit for Cotto mattered then wow. Oscar was gonna fight Void at 147 anyway how is fighting Pac at 147 a catchweight, especially since Void retired after Oscar fought Forbes. Cotto beat Mosley, what was wrong with fighting him.

As for the drug testing bs Floyds demand came out of nowhere, imo thats why there were conflicting reports after he randomly asked for it. All I can say is that Haymon had no problem with the contract so why would Void.
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