For any NFL poster to not understand that information gathered against NFL competition is more valuable than combine stats or college work is pretty staggering.

Harvin isn't likely to have a good career based on the fact that he apparently can't be part of an NFL locker room without fighting everyone for whatever reason, but it takes a special kind of dumb to say "Percy had X combine stats, players with X stats are out there every year, ergo Harvin's skill set is replaceable".

All I am doing is dispelling the notion that his height and weight are anything resembling unique for his speed. The guy has a place in the nfl but it's not like he is some physical specimen that doesn't come along but once every few years. He is a mediocre starting wr who has had a lot of hype around him his whole career.

Still firmly on team #PercyIsGoingToSuck, but using this year as any sort of evidence seems bad.

It's coming out that the Hawks' players didn't like him and the coaches didn't feel like they could work him into the offense. It's not exactly crazy to assume that those things, more than a lack of skill, might contribute to a lackluster start to the year. Throw in the fact that Seattle doesn't exactly run an air raid offense and his numbers make sense.

What had harvin done against nfl competition that makes you think he would be a valuable piece at the price point he demands in a contract?

Where did the bolded come from?

Edit: To be clear, whether or not Harvin is worth his contract is a separate issue from whether or not he's the same as a player, or the range of players, with his combine measurables.

I don't even...

Well, whatever. We got owned by the Vikings pretty hard here obviously. Hopefully this was a necessary move, obviously he was never a big part of our winning but being down both he and Tate feels like too much. We'll see if the rookies have anything.

Harvin's last 16 games in Minny was pretty sick. You act like he's replacement level.

It's a question. That's why it has a question mark. If you don't think that then why are you arguing that he has some unique skillset that is valuable to nfl teams? I posted a list of guys with similar skillsets and you attacked it by suggesting that measurements aren't as relevant as datapoints from nfl competition which implies that you think his exploits vs nfl competition are uniquely valuable.

He isn't replacement level in that a guy off the street would be better but without looking at contracts I think that probably just about everyone with deals his size are likely to be better and more productive nfl WRs than he is (including gadget plays and kick/punt return benefits).

I'm not saying Harvin lacks skill or that Harvin is a lock to be unable return to his Vikings form, just that Harvin is not a unique speed/size/elusiveness talent.

Exactly. And it's not even close to being unique. Plenty of guys (not in absolutes but in terms of guys who will get a look by nfl scouts) have his height, weight, shiftiness, and speed.

Lot of money in NYC. Lot of dumb Jets fans. Dey buying dat price down.

It is absolute insanity if people are putting money on Jets at 125-1. I feel sorry for the children of those parents. Truly sad. I mean they're really going to get by NE? INDY? San Diego? Cincy? Broncos? Broncos already beat them in NYC by 14. That's just to get to the SB.

His comp to MEGA is certainly LOL but

If you think Harvin still runs a 4.41 like he did at the combine then lol u. Guy has taken a beating in the NFL.

SE has always loved Harvin for some reason. Dat speedy Gator tho. Electric. Explosive. Exciting. He's way down the list of WR assets.

Yeah but that was over like 3 seasons, between bouts of migraines and concussions.

subpar production? hes averaged 70 total yards a game for his career and has 30 tds in 60 games. and thats despite being in some pretty aids situations.

and no, there arent many players floating around in free agency with his attributes and at his age.

There's my edit, and there's this:

Harvin played well for the Vikes in his last full year (1312 YFS and 8 TDs). That's been a while due to injuries (which is part of his valuation, but not part of the discussion on his skills).

You're basically arguing that all players with similar combine numbers are the same. You know why that's dumb. Harvin has played at the NFL level and shown he can play well. I don't think there's much of an argument that he isn't over paid, but that's a separate discussion from whether or not he's replacement level.

Fun with combine stats, two RBs:
A)6'0", 213lbs, 4.41 40yd, 21 BP
B)5'9", 228 lbs, 4.48 40yd, 25 BP

A)
B)

have you watched him this year? hes super fast and likely still runs a 4.4.

and he missed 3 games in his first 3 season. then he had a bad ankle injury that caused him to miss the last 7 of his final season. his injury problems are massively overblown.

To be sure...that's why he was just traded for a 4th round draft pick a year after being traded for a 1st, 3rd, and 7th and given $25M guaranteed.

To clear up some issues: I don't think anyone is saying the Jets got a steal. My issue was with Godzilla saying the trade was "horrible" for the Jets based largely on the costs involved.

I think he's overpaid, but his cost to the Jets is less than his cost would be to another team. Yeah, they could roll that money over, but even that's not such a huge issue given where they're at. There are other issues that contribute to the trade being bad for the Jets, but that wasn't what we were talking about.

Overall, this is probably a 6/10 for the Hawks and a 4/10 for the Jets. It barely registers on the Trade Scale

The CDL thing is different. That's someone trying to argue that Harvin is a totally replaceable talent because his combine measurables are pretty common. That argument ignores the reality of his play in the NFL since then as well as the general lol-worthyness of combine numbers.

Another way to look at is Harvin has 20 receiving TDs and has been in the league almost six years. He's a great kickoff returner and a much better RB than most wide receivers though. Harvin was and probably still is a very useful player, but gets paid like a top 5 receiver and he's clearly not.

and the jets arent paying him like a top 5 wr tho. the seahawks did.

Yeah, I'm with RT, Victor, etc. here. No one is saying the trade was good for the Jets, but advancing arguments that Harvin is some kind of replacement-level talent is ridiculous.

He hasn't gotten a ton of touches this year. I've seen him get a few inside handoffs then get clobbered.

He played 10 games from '12-'13. And I am all but positive he has come out of some games due to getting concussed or having migraines.

been trying to come with a harvin is a headache so bad its a migraine something something joke but giving up sorry guys

After this year the Jets are. His 2015 salary is 4th among WR. 2016 he currently clocks in at 5th. And the Jets are all but out of contention this year, so the trade is pretty close to a complete waste of money if they don't plan on having him around after this year.

He's not a replacement level talent. Who thinks that?

Those two mostly

Edit: I think "replacement level" might be the wrong term because it conjures up it's Advanced Stats definition, but the argument is being made that he's entirely replaceable based on his skills, which seems laughable.

considering he hasnt done anything in two years there isnt that much to replace. obviously he is better than practice squad players if thats what people are using as "replacement level" but no one is

all CDLs combine post did was show that there are in fact many players with his combination of size and speed, he isnt all that unique athletically