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NFL Week 4 Rankings & Discussion Thread NFL Week 4 Rankings & Discussion Thread

09-30-2013 , 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Has anyone ever quantified the difference in conversion rates between 3rd and 10 vs 3rd and 7?

YPP is somewhat misleading here b/c with passes you're facing 3rd and 10 or worse a significant percentage of the time. Then again, even though you get 3 YPP more consistently running, you still face a must throw down on 3rd which is so much easier to defend.
ANFL has it somewhere. You're right that YPP isn't perfect here, but the EPA analyses (which take this stuff into account) show the same imbalance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Is there data on completion % and YPP by down and distance, e.g. 1st and 10; 2nd and 10; 3rd and 5?
Can't recommend the PFR play index finder highly enough. It has all this stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake7777
The balance isn't static either though, you obviously adjust until it's an equal output but then keep adjusting to maintain. Unfortunately I would think most coaches look at poor running output and say "we have to run more to get better at it"
Yep.
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09-30-2013 , 12:56 PM
Just to be a nit, equilibrium requires the marginal value to be equal, not the average value. In football that might result in total value being equal, but not necessarily. Think of the usage/efficiency tradeoff in basketball for example, a three point specialist will be extremely efficient, but asking them to take on any additional usage is a task much better suited to an overall less efficient chucker.
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09-30-2013 , 12:57 PM
Re: GOAT

He made 2 nice throws to Decker last night that I didn't see last year. Arm strength could be back in the top 30 now.
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09-30-2013 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd
Just to be a nit, equilibrium requires the marginal value to be equal, not the average value. In football that might result in total value being equal, but not necessarily. Think of the usage/efficiency tradeoff in basketball for example, a three point specialist will be extremely efficient, but asking them to take on any additional usage is a task much better suited to a less efficient chucker.
You're correct, but it boils down to the same thing in football. (It's not really a nitpick -- the fact that marginal value should be essentially equal to average value for run/pass in a given situation in football is a core point in the overall analysis.)
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09-30-2013 , 12:57 PM
LOL Raining Men. Player hating biatch. Never seen someone so bitter, thanks for posting that stuff from the Manning thread.
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09-30-2013 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEAR10
LOL Raining Men. Player hating biatch. Never seen someone so bitter, thanks for posting that stuff from the Manning thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEAR10
It's cool, ban me for making 1 post in the NYY thread/Twins thread, whatever the **** may be, while our threads get swarmed every game we play, it's cool. Double standards for mods like tuggles who like to get double penetrated. Yes, it means he likes to get ****ed in his pisshole, as strange as that sounds.

It's fine though, because it's made me aware that 2p2 is run by complete and utter pussies. Seriously tuggles, you're a ****ing bitch lol. Like a legit bitch, no joke dude.

How do you let someone like itsrainingmen, a legit fa.ggot, like he flat out admits to taking it in his ass and sucking dick on the reg talk down to you all the time? I mean he smacks you around on this forum worse than Miggy smacks around his night after finishing a case.

Bring on the ban, this one is prolly a perma, but whatever. Site is no longer legit when it's nothing but double standards and fa.ggots running around.

Last but not least, LOOOOOOOOOOL @ "the rat"

never has there been a more perfect nickname. u r such a little bitch. all you do is poke ur head into det games trying to get a rise out of me, idk if u want the daddy dick (your not gonna get it) or what, but i do know that there is maybe 3 posters on this site who i would be able to physically overpower in a fight, and there names are "the rat" "the rat" & "the rat" Good thing for me is i wont have to wreck ur life, I can pay my Detroit thugs $0.99 to do it for me, so how you want it?
.
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09-30-2013 , 01:03 PM
1) Broncos 4-0
2) Lions 3-1
3) Seahawks 4-0
4) Saints 3-0
5) Dolphins 3-0
6) Chiefs 4-0
7) Texans 2-2
8) Patriots 4-0
9) Bears 3-1
10) Browns 2-2
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09-30-2013 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin
They play Houston twice still, and we know Kubiak's worst nightmare is showing up another coach by winning by more than 3 points.
With Jacksonville's offense, Kubiak will probably start running out the clock after the Texans go ahead 3-0 on a 12-play, 78-yard drive.
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09-30-2013 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEAR10
1) Broncos 4-0
2) Lions 3-1
3) Seahawks 4-0
4) Saints 3-0
5) Dolphins 3-0
6) Chiefs 4-0
7) Texans 2-2
8) Patriots 4-0
9) Bears 3-1
10) Browns 2-2
Why Lions only at 2?
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09-30-2013 , 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEAR10
1) Broncos 4-0
2) Lions 3-1
3) Seahawks 4-0
4) Saints 3-0
5) Dolphins 3-0
6) Chiefs 4-0
7) Texans 2-2
8) Patriots 4-0
9) Bears 3-1
10) Browns 2-2
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09-30-2013 , 01:07 PM
Thanks, DB, I'll check that stuff out.

Taking Run EPA/P and Pass EPA/P for individual teams paints a slightly different picture than the aggregate data suggests. Seven teams have higher run EPA/P than pass. Eight more are equal (HOU) or essentially equal in EPA whether they run or pass, including, interestingly, Indianapolis. The teams with elite passing games and poor running games (Denver, San Diego, New Orleans, Green Bay, Seattle) skew the overall numbers pretty significantly. Those five teams should definitely pass more--especially Seattle.
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09-30-2013 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darO
how do you make this post without mentioning Ray Rice or MJD?
Injuries and JAX respectively.

Far as I can tell Spillers injury is recent, and I have no idea what's up with Ridley
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09-30-2013 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
With Jacksonville's offense, Kubiak will probably start running out the clock after the Texans go ahead 3-0 on a 12-play, 78-yard drive.
and this drive will take 24 minutes
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09-30-2013 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
Why Lions only at 2?
Legit question that I really don't have the answer for at the moment.
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09-30-2013 , 01:09 PM
Seriously though, take Jacksonville against the spread in the first Houston game and print money. Kubiak will keep it close out of respect for the other coach (who shall remain nameless because, well, I don't know his name yet).
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09-30-2013 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimmer4141
Problem is that Salary cap seems to shorten their window more than other teams.

Stafford/Johnson/Suh are getting paid so much that it's unlikely they can add any other pieces in FA and prob have to let Fairley go when his rookie deal is up.
Mayhew should be working 24/7 to extend Suh. Such a beast this and that 22m cap hit next year which would be brought down with said extension
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09-30-2013 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Thanks, DB, I'll check that stuff out.

Taking Run EPA/P and Pass EPA/P for individual teams paints a slightly different picture than the aggregate data suggests. Seven teams have higher run EPA/P than pass. Eight more are equal (HOU) or essentially equal in EPA whether they run or pass, including, interestingly, Indianapolis. The teams with elite passing games and poor running games (Denver, San Diego, New Orleans, Green Bay, Seattle) skew the overall numbers pretty significantly. Those five teams should definitely pass more--especially Seattle.
Interesting post, and make me look some stuff up.

Was really surprised to see SEA at -EPA/P on running.
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09-30-2013 , 01:11 PM
Lollll SRM/G10
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09-30-2013 , 01:13 PM
as far as manning goes i definitely admit to grossly underestimating his longevity and grossly overestimating the impact his injury would have on him

as far as the lions go, well, they're basically the same team that went 10-6 and were on the cusp only now they actually have a legitimate running game. if they beat green bay, them being top 5 is probably correct
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09-30-2013 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Thanks, DB, I'll check that stuff out.

Taking Run EPA/P and Pass EPA/P for individual teams paints a slightly different picture than the aggregate data suggests. Seven teams have higher run EPA/P than pass. Eight more are equal (HOU) or essentially equal in EPA whether they run or pass, including, interestingly, Indianapolis. The teams with elite passing games and poor running games (Denver, San Diego, New Orleans, Green Bay, Seattle) skew the overall numbers pretty significantly. Those five teams should definitely pass more--especially Seattle.
Some of that is explainable by sample size. Schaub (whether he's as bad as phb thinks or not) is unlikely to keep chucking a pick six per game, and I'd guess DAL and CHI won't keep showing run EPA/P > pass EPA/P the whole season. With Indianapolis, QB runs are skewing the data (this is a factor for every team, but this is the most obvious statistical example). If you look at the team page, Luck's averaging .26 EPA/P overall, while the RB grouping is almost exactly 0 EPA as a whole.

The overall situation is definitely most egregious with the elite passing offenses, though. The mistakes are larger in point magnitude, and they're higher-leverage because these are (by and large) the teams with real playoff/ring equity.
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09-30-2013 , 01:15 PM
I think the Browns can win this division. Everyone is bad and the Bengals have Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalolton, and key injuries.
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09-30-2013 , 01:17 PM
is hoyer better than dalton, riv?

edit: and in other news, rivers is back to being a v good qb now that norv is gone. prob resolved to play badly until norv got fired.
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09-30-2013 , 01:17 PM
I expect the Browns to win the division.
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09-30-2013 , 01:17 PM
STA,

Seems likely. So far, absolutely, but sample size etc.
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09-30-2013 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen
as far as manning goes i definitely admit to grossly underestimating his longevity and grossly overestimating the impact his injury would have on him
Strange about Manning. He hasn't been at this level in almost ten years and had settled into mere top-5 QB caliber status for the last several years. He's so locked in now, and losing Clady did absolutely nothing.
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