NFL Old and Ongoing Bicker about Manning vs. Brady Thread. AKA The Biggest Loser - Page 19 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

meh having a guy like favre (or other top 5-10 qbs of all time) pretty much guarentees ur offense will at worst be league average with the chance at being elite. having a guy like freeney or walter jones does not even come close to that.

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02-11-2010 , 10:25 PM

#452

SMIGLET

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thats simply the wrong way of looking at it

by themselves, of course favre >>>>> either of jones or freeney. but both together? ill certainly take the latter and wouldnt think twice

it all of course depends on who you surround them with

Last edited by SMIGLET; 02-11-2010 at 10:33 PM.

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02-12-2010 , 12:01 AM

#453

prohornblower

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Originally Posted by jogsxyz

Found it all in one place. Among the QBs only Elway played in more than 4 SBs. Top 10 QBs in passing yardage. Warner has the top 3 of all time.

Point is that if we assume most Super Bowls are coinflips, then Bradshaw and Montana should have had to play in 8 (say 7 if they were slight favs most of the time) Super Bowls to get their 4 rings.

Meanwhile Jim Kelly got to 4 (same amount as Bradshaw) yet is merely a footnote, because he lost 4 flips.

At one point Aikman was 3-0 yet Elway was 0-3. I'm pretty sure a large majority of people consider Elway better QB than Aikman.

I'm aware that I'm likely preaching to the choir here but it's worth repeating.

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02-12-2010 , 12:11 AM

#454

GuyIncognito

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Phildo

what exactly do you think happens if you give manning one of the greatest defenses of all time?

He ends up with a less expensive offense?

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02-12-2010 , 12:12 AM

#455

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Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

He ends up with a less expensive offense?

And still makes the Garcons, Collies, and patchwork O-lines into studs. He's good and stuff.

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02-12-2010 , 12:32 AM

#456

GuyIncognito

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Tanner

And still makes the Garcons, Collies, and patchwork O-lines into studs. He's good and stuff.

Well okay, but I wouldn't exactly call all of them studs (more precisely, the value they produced), and Manning's raw numbers are certainly down from the days when he had Harrison and James.

The point is that projecting Manning's playoff W-L record (not that this is a particularly good metric, of course) by giving him a better defense would violate an external constraint. Projecting Brady/Marino/Elway/whoever's raw offensive stats by giving them better offensive teammates doesn't.

Last edited by GuyIncognito; 02-12-2010 at 12:56 AM.

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02-12-2010 , 12:37 AM

#457

vixticator

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ctyri

Peyton Manning is good enough without having to create fictional myths about his receivers.

agree

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11

id even go so far to say that i'd rather have a guy like a prime brett favre than prime dwight freeney + walter jones

Sure but Favre is one of the all time greats. You wouldn't take Jim Kelly or Drew Brees over Freeny + Jones.

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02-12-2010 , 01:12 AM

#458

vixticator

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Nobody gives Favre **** for only winning 1 SB. Manning needs to go have more fun out there and star in commercials for jeans, or trucks.

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02-12-2010 , 07:47 AM

#459

ClarkNasty

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Originally Posted by vixticator

Nobody gives Favre **** for only winning 1 SB. Manning needs to go have more fun out there and star in commercials for jeans, or trucks.

Because Favre's issues are related to being undisciplined, and are obviously why he's a cut below the true elite of all time. Manning's perceived issues are related to being a choker except for one game at home against New England. Manning SHOULD be clearly the GOAT, but his playoff record prevents it from being a universal truth, whereas no one really thinks Favre had a shot at GOAT because, well, Favre gonna Favre.

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02-12-2010 , 10:19 AM

#460

EPiPeN11

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vixticator

agree

Sure but Favre is one of the all time greats. You wouldn't take Jim Kelly or Drew Brees over Freeny + Jones.

reason i picked freeney and jones is because they are around where favre ranks in terms of the positions they play, ie. i'd have a hard time finding 5-6 LT's or DEnds better than Jones or Freeney (altho thinking it over more freeney is prob around the 6-8 range)

that said i'll admit id rather have anthony munoz + reggie white than any qb.

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02-12-2010 , 01:06 PM

#461

Mister Havisham

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not buying prime Freeney as being worth 1+ win to random team. Taking LT over DE because of indirect effect of keeping QB healthy. How about the four prospects that went 2-5 behind Aikman in draft: Tony Mandarich, then Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas, and Deion Sanders!! Sick if he was rated as clearly above all those guys. Great player.

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02-12-2010 , 01:11 PM

#462

Mister Havisham

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prohornblower

What sucks about using stats to judge players is in a 10 year career a football player will play about 150 games. That's a terrible sample size.

Am I wrong in thinking it's much easier to use stats to judge players in baseball because there is such a huge sample?

It's easy to put NFL QBs into tiers but it's splitting hairs to try to organize the tiers.

Cliffs: Football should be played year-round.

Can be splitting hairs with last guy in one tier and top guy in another

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12-02-2010 , 12:47 PM

#463

Goodie

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So, I was out of work on Tuesday this week and two of my co-workers came up to me yesterday to rip into me about how bad Peyton had played on Monday night. I was talking to them last week telling them that I was quite sure that Manning was the best QB of all time and that Brady clearly isn't at Peyton's level. It was really weird to actually defend Peyton Manning, given how much I hate him and the colts.

I thought you guys would find this funny given how hard I fought in this thread to prove that Brady was better.

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12-02-2010 , 12:49 PM

#464

bigt2k4

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Rivers> all

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12-02-2010 , 12:50 PM

#465

Steroid Boy

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why is is not surprising that goodie bumped this and bt2k is burying his head up rivers taint

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12-02-2010 , 01:14 PM

#466

Debo9

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just wait till vix gets in here with his love for jawshh freeman

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12-02-2010 , 02:25 PM

#467

bigt2k4

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Originally Posted by Steroid Boy

why is is not surprising that goodie bumped this and bt2k is burying his head up rivers taint

I did that as a sort of joke, I know SE is growing tired of my Rivers praise

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12-07-2010 , 12:32 AM

#468

Supine

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RANGZ.

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12-07-2010 , 12:42 AM

#469

tuq

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Yes, TOP NOTCH bump.

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12-07-2010 , 12:43 AM

#470

Jetto

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What has manning done that brady hasn't done?

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12-07-2010 , 12:44 AM

#471

vixticator

clutch

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jetto itt uhoh

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12-07-2010 , 12:44 AM

#472

Kneel B4 Zod

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this is a BS bump guys. I'm sure if Peyton had Woodhead and Ben Jarvis Green Ellis types he would do this same sort of stuff

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12-07-2010 , 12:45 AM

#473

Supine

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In his defense tho, Manning never had weapons like gronkowski or woodhead. Pats elite D like this year also helps

Last edited by Supine; 12-07-2010 at 12:45 AM. Reason: kb4z beat me to a very foreseeable line

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12-07-2010 , 12:45 AM

#474

vixticator

clutch

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brady's weapons have so much more WIM

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12-07-2010 , 12:46 AM

#475

Jetto

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I am not a fan of IND or NE but If I had to choose right now or the start of the previous 4 seasons. Id take brady over Peyton.

becuase I feel that brady has achieved more and done more than manning. im taking defense out of the equation

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