good golly, miss molly

So actually this would actually fall under A) they are lying. Show me some proof they are lying then. Or do you just make baseless statements with nothing to back them up?

Its very similar to when people grade BB by yards allowed when he has said multiple times that he gives a **** about yards per game. All he cares about defensively is PPG, turnovers, and red area efficiency. You can grade him on other things, but these arent anywhere close to a top priority to him defensively.

Remember, this is the same person who thinks Brady still has the legitimate TD record because one of Manning's 55 TDs should have been ruled incomplete. Sure, 54>50, but since the data integrity has been violated the record doesnt count.

lol what

When people cant counter the argument, they troll. Hence the above posts. Maybe you guys should go to 'your mom' jokes next and see if that helps your case.

yeah they have influence in not ****ing **** up like turning the ball over or using clock. the point remains, the QB is not in control of all of these things but typically when you talk about QB record they are getting 100% of the win and the loss when on certain teams the QB might have 5% influence (Dilfer for the Ravens) on the win while on other teams 25% (Peyton) (these #s are probably way off).

the problem is there are basically a 2x2 of possible outcomes for a QB, he could play really well and win (top left) or he could play really bad and lose (bottom right) but there is a lot of stuff mixed in but basically you have a 2x2. what you are basically doing is throwing everyone into 2 buckets, when there are simply 4 but really an infinite # of possibilities. WIN-GOOD, LOSE-BAD is the game you want to play when I have no interest in it. I'm more interested if a QB played well and it lead them to victory or if a QB played like **** and they still won. I hate binary conditions and I'm shocked anyone here does except the most homerish of fans of "winners."

MDoran's thoughts on the TD record -

Useless to engage with such a pathetic troll.

Great example of someone who cant make a good case for posting, but wants to get on the virgin neckbeard train. Stay on topic or dont post.

Doran, you realize no QB in the history of ever will say publicly that they care about anything but wins and team success right?

You also realize the ways they claim to want to be evaluated don't have anything to do with the best ways evaluate them...right?

So if Peyton wants to be the GOAT, all he has to do is tell the media that QBs should be judged by forehead size?

The QB is as close to a coach as any position gets in the NFL. Also, they touch the ball more than any other player on the team. Elite QBs have influence not only on special teams and defense to some degree through leadership, but also have some influence on team re-signings and free agent acquisitions. Would you refute any of the above?

I think its very fair to grade a QB on wins, especially since that's how QBs want to be graded.

Here for the virgin neckbeardery

well you can stay on that level moran, the rest of us aka non-skip bayless fans, will evaluate QBs like they should around here. who gives a **** if it's fair. it's doesn't accurately reflect performance that well. to a degree it does, but there are so many mitigating factors that are ignored in wins/losses. lol at doing it b/c it's what they say when interviewed by the media. of course QBs don't want to be evaluated by A/YA, DVOA cause I doubt they know what they actually mean.

i'm pretty sure star basketball players like to be evaluated on Rings/Wins too. Again, that's pretty stupid. As someone mentioned, measuring pitchers in baseball on wins alone is living in the ****ing stone age. Why would we want to sink to your level 1 thinking?

Baseball players continue to be evaluated on the trusty metrics that ELITE TOP 1% GM's used for close to 100 years: Batting Average, RBI's, fielding percentage, and wins.

Who is this Bayless person? Anyways, you continue to assert that the QBs are lying about their goals. I continue to assert that they are not lying. Since they back up my side, I think you need to prove that they are lying before we can go forward. Show some evidence?

One of my favorite things to laugh at on this site is all the geeks with their ****** math that makes them think they know better than the actual people doing the job. There might not be a single person in the NFL who cares about the dork math. Are they just all so stupid that they cant even comprehend what you guys talk about? Or do they actually just understand football better than you and know when to apply the math and when not too. I know which option you will probably choose, and I will tell you now you are wrong.

It's called common sense, I don't need evidence for that.

I'm asserting that they talk in media speak. Are you 5?

This is Bayless, a stupid talking head on ESPN that is a level 0 thinker like yourself. Before this season, I'm pretty sure he thought Tebow was better than Peyton in Denver b/c Tebow had 1 more win in the playoffs with the "same" team.

Baseball was in the stone age and then Moneyball came along and was widely adopted.

Football's analytics are getting much better but it's still much tougher to parse things out than Baseball. It's hilarious how bad some coaches are at decision making. There are great statistical models that coaches should be using based on relevant information that they clearly ignore b/c way too many are old school and extremely risk adverse.

Basketball's analytics are pretty good. Hollinger got hired as a GM and there are a number of math geeks who are GMs.

But obviously, we should keep living in the past. We should ignore all the great things going on behind the scenes because wins and losses are so cut and dry and in front of the media all QBs ever talk about is winning and losing.

This is awesome. Keep it up Doran I'm starting to think you are right.

I rarely watch ESPN and I dont think Tebow is better than many QBs. Not sure what it all has to do with this topic.

You assert they talk in media speak, yet their is zero evidence that they dont believe what they say. When Brady says that winning is all that matters, you think they are lying then? Do you truly think he cares how many TD passes he threw in a loss? Be honest. Then justify your response.

I really doubt Brady worries about ANY/A when he looks at his ring collection, doubt anyone in football cares either.

I would like to ask Peyton Manning whether he wishes he had gone 10-25 for 130 yards and a pick and won the SB or, rather, had put forth the completion record-setting performance he had in a blowout loss.

Even though winning is important, I bet the math-minded Manning would still choose the latter.

Manning has more wins than Brady