giving up two first round picks for the right to sign a non-qb to an enormous contract seems really bad

Personally I thought it was heroic for Dallas to ship away two firsts for Joey Galloway.

I dont know what Jimmy is asking for but unless it is something outlandish then Brees (and I love Brees) should be restructuring his deal to get it ****ing done. Otherwise hes gonna spend the rest of his career in mediocrity cause Jimmy makes that offense roll.

Somebody (Chicago, Patriots (lol hate the Pats but itd be awesome), GB, Eagles (definitely) ) should sign him and hope New Orleans cant do it. Hes definitely worth 2 firsts...I think Wookie is wrong

Ignore my list of potentials as I put 5 seconds of thought into it. Point is, anybody who has the cap space to sign him to say 7 years 90 million should do it. If AP is making 15 million a year Graham deserves that for sure.
EDIT: to say that along with this im not currently up to date on salary caps of all teams. But i made my point

Edit 2: Phildo really? I know 1sts are pretty valuable now a days but I think Graham is a huge commodity at this point in his career and can really push a team like the Eagles into top 5 territory. Things change so quick in the NFL, if you're close, go for it imo

yeah we all remember how much drew brees sucked until jimmy graham came along

hes getting old as is colston


and nobody said he sucks or will suck. I just think he wont be ELITE without him

brees has been elite since at least 2008. i'm pretty sure if anyone is making other players on that offense look better than they are it's him.

Jimmay was utterly useless against Seattle and SF

At this point I am completely on board with the Pats just giving up those 28-32s, getting Graham, waiting for Gronk to get healthy and just going HAM. Brady is 37, they have nothing to lose.

As a Bills fan the thought of Basketball and Gronk playing at the same time gives me a really awkward erection.

should they change the terms of the non-exclusive tag, so the teams (the saints in this case) could negotiate a return for graham if the saints chose not to match?

like baltimore may not be willing to give up two firsts, but new orleans is willing to take a first and third. what would the downsides be to that route?

Teams can negotiate to trade whatever they want for a franchised player.

This is incorrect

You have it correct in what I assume is an excerpt you quoted, but the bold summation at the end is incorrect.

From Jason at overthecap.com

This distills Article 10 Section 2.a.i of the 2011 CBA which you can read for yourself on page 44 here.

In both the exclusive and non-exclusive tag, the player receives the tag value at their position (which is different for exclusive and non-exclusive) OR 120% of the prior years salary, whichever is greater. All salaries are guaranteed and teams must take all of the cap hit the moment the player signs the contract.

What makes the exclusive tag so awful is it eliminates the player being exposed to the market.

Players can be tagged multiple times. If the Saints get away with the non-exclusive Ftag for Graham, and he qualifies as a TE, it will be a no-brainer for them to tag him again next year. On the third tag there are a bunch of other rules in place which basically means the player has be paid like Peyton Manning. J/k, but it's my understanding no one has a clear understanding of what the verbage in the CBA means re: third tag, but you are free to read it in the link I gave and decide for yourself.

If there has been a change since the CBA in 2011 and I am wrong, I would love to know.

I am surprised the Saints used a non-exclusive on Graham. Maybe they had cap constraints; maybe they think Wookie is correct and no one will give up two first AND a big enough contract for Graham.

It was pretty much a foregone conclusion Graham was getting tagged by the Saints, so I thought it would be pretty sweet for Graham's agent to swing for the fences in the negotiations for two reasons:

1.) He has an excellent argument for being paid as a wide receiver i.e. lots of money more than the highest paid TE


2.) He could try and bait the Saints into using the non-exclusive tag by making it seem like Jimmy was dead set on being unreasonable, thus allowing Jimmy to shop around.

After all the Saints did use the exclusive tag on Brees.

Lastly, I do agree that Wookie has a point re: value of draft picks under the new CBA, but Graham has shown he has no peer at his position. I think it is much closer than "almost no chance" a team trades 2 first rounders for him. Especially a team late in the draft. That should be cutting their TE....


This is based entirely on the feels, so take that fwiw. And we obviously have no idea at what number Jimmah will make a deal.

The 2014 franchise tag values are out on NFL.com

Jimmah will be a lol steal for the Saints at 7.035m; again, he will be a steal next year at ~8.4 if the tag stands this year, and they can't agree to next years sure to be low-ball offer from the Saints.

BTW, excluding performance escalators and post season pay, it looks like he made ~3.2m TOTAL for four years itl so far. (I am going off of cap charges; not sure if escalators are a cap charge)

1. No peer...who was healthy in 2013.

2. What's his position, though, really?

Turns out Jason wrote about this yesterday. Cliff notes: First, Gronk had some disadvantages that weakened his leverage. Second, the cap has increased ~10% since he signed. Third, albeit unlikely, the Jets and Phins are the best shot for Graham.

Conclusion, Graham should be looking at 12-13m.

At what point does Jamaal Charles start to feel like an idiot for being like the 10th highest paid player on the Chiefs? Dude made $2.6M last year. Edit: nevermind looks like he made more like $5M with incentives. But still.

1.) Being able to stay healthy in the NFL is a skill/attribute. It could just be runbad, but Gronk has consistently been injured dating back to college. Even if I grant you Gronk is on equal footing, they are far and away the two best TE's in the NFL.

2.) That is the (5) million dollar question.

just massive LOL at anyone giving up 2 firsts for jimmy. 0.000%

oh. i thought the two firsts for a non-excl. was a mandatory thing.

didnt realize thats what nos was asking for graham. pretty f'ing extreme.

Sorry I should have been clearer, if the teams don't have an agreement in place it is 2 first round picks but the teams can negotiate whatever they want.

Graham has avg'd 1169 yards a season over the last three seasons....Look at the 2013 stats at TE. Joke. The next three players are 917, 872, 859. The top five players who aren't JG averaged 870 yds. Graham is 34 percent more productive on a yards basis than the average of the next 5 players below him.

And then we have the TD's. At 16 this year, he has 2 more than the most by a WR in 2013.

Actually Grahams numbers are really similar to the numbers Dez and Brandon Marshall put up this year.

you should be looking at his stats among WR. he lines up on the line and blocks as many plays as I do

how many non-qbs would teams give up two firsts for? you are right his numbers are like marshall. the bears got marshall for two third rounders

Marshall's price was driven down by him being a suspension-prone jackass, and I think it was widely considered to be the case at the time of the trade that the Bears had completed a steal for just two thirds even given the risks involved. I don't know what fair market would have been for Marshall at that point without the baggage, but Graham doesn't bring any serious off-field stuff that I'm aware of.