I agree drafting a RB high is certainly bad just hate when the rationale is "look at player X who was picked later and just as good"

I haven't followed the combine at all or much of the pre-draft stuff this year. who the hell should my Colts be drafting? Chubb seems like the only choice at 3 really unless Luck is truly dead. No O-linemen worth taking that hight this year? I assume trading down is live since so many people are looking at the top QB's?

Drafting Saquon #1 is such a massive mistake it's unreal to me anyone in here is okay with it.

Not only is barkley not a top 10 equity pick in this draft imo but if there's a QB you like over the others you basically have to take him first or trade out of the pick, you can't wait till pick four, two QB's are going off the board. The Giants are almost assuredly taking a QB (probably Rosen) and the Colts are either picking Luck's immediate replacement due to dead shoulder or trading down to Denver at 5 as Denver has to fear Cle taking their guy.

Yes you can quote me if the barkley line is wrong later but I ain't taking the guy with the same flaw as Trent Richardson at the first overall pick, or ten of them. Just me I guess.

The last time the Giants traded in the first round was 2006 when they traded down from 25th with the Steelers and selected Mathias Kiwanuka. It was actually the only time in Giants team history that they ever traded down in the first round. Gettleman never traded in the first round as GM of the Panthers and now he's running the Giants.

Not saying it's impossible. I mean Gettleman even mentioned that it was tradeable but it isn't the way they normally operate.

I really want the Giants to take a quarterback if they think any of them are starter material. They need to start the rebuilding process. They have way too many holes to compete in any way. Picking Barkley would be good if they had a lot of pieces already in place. But if they did, they probably wouldn't be picking #2. So I guess in order of preference:

1. Best QB available
2. Trade down
3. BAP

All I want is AZ to somehow find partners and keep trading down from 15 and get more 2nd or 3rd rounders. Half the time the 1st round pick is going to be a overpaid bust anyways.

Or just say yolo and draft Lamar Jackson

I just assumed that taking Barkley at #1 was a mistake due to where you can get Chubb. Surely if the Browns love Barkley at #1, they'd like Chubb way waaaaay later?

Not sure why Chubb specifically. He's not really anything like Barkley (4 catches all season compared to Barkley's 54). I like Sony Michel much better than Chubb personally, although I know it's not a popular opinion. Rushed for 7.9 ypc compared to Chubb's 6.0 in same offense.

Jones/Guice/Freeman will also all go in 1st 2 rounds probably.

I think Barkley is really good & unlike Fournette has a legit chance to be an excellent 3-down back...still couldn't imagine picking him top 4, though.

Why is Sony > Chubb not a popular opinion? I like them both and wouldn't mind my team getting either one (preferably day 2) but in most games I saw the eye test favored Sony plus he probably has better knees at this point.

Maybe it is a popular opinion? The 1st 2 sources I looked at had Chubb ahead. Seems kind of mixed now that I delve into it more.

Regardless, lots of good RBs floating around in this draft. Some people like Ballage, Penny, Scarbrough, Johnson, Hines, Adams, Wadley, Walton etc etc etc.

I don't have him that high myself, but a few people like his production and touch on his deep ball. I dunno, I saw some bad decisions too, and I have my suspicions that there's no way everyone on the Oklahoma State offense is worth a high pick.

Yeah, he's a guy I gotta go back to the film for, but he passed the athletic tests with flying colors and dominated Maryland's passing game, so at least by the athletic and production metrics I use as filters he's a standout.

I would never take him #1 but I don't agree that he's not necessarily a top-10 pick in this draft, even with the problems you mentioned-- this draft doesn't have a lot of elite talent, and where it does it's at positions of lower importance. Bradley Chubb will probably go higher than he should just because edge rusher is so important and some team is gonna be looking at him or like Saquon or Quenton Nelson.

(Also Chubb's 3-cone is AIDS which always worries me in an edge rusher.)

Best argument for passing on Saquon is that you can get a good RB later. For the record, I think both Nick Chubb and Sony Michel are good. Chubb crushed the athletic testing too; it really depends more on what kind of back your offense needs. Derrius Guice, Ronald Jones, Royce Freeman all seem like they could be featured backs too. Maybe Rashaad Penny as well. Bo Scarbrough killed testing too so he may have a better NFL future than I expected.

Yeah that's a loaded list.

Will be legit surprised if Scarbrough isn't a bust based on what I saw this year.

Nath and Needle - have you guys done a personal QB ranking yet?

I’d rather see each of their respective QB draft rankings for the last 3-5 years.

fwiw, I have Gurley and Elliott as better overall prospects coming out than Barkley.

Barkley ahead of Richardson and Fournette.

Drafts are weird man.

I looked at the website...kind of difficult to track down exact rankings on some things, but it looks like:

2017
Watson
Mahomes
Kizer
Trubisky
Kaaya

2016
Goff
Wentz
Lynch
Cook
Cardale
Adams
Boykin
Brissett
Dak
Hogan

2015
Jameis
Mariota
Hundley
Bridge
Petty
Grayson

2014
TBridge
Bortles
Manziel
Carr
Mettenberger
McCarron
Wenning
Logan Thomas
Garoppolo
Savage
Murray

2013
Geno
Nassib
EJ

(Needle had Geno, EJ, Nassib)

The reason I gave Rudolph the Rex Grossman comp is you can update the **** it I'm going deep club with his picture.

The ending sentence here is a hogwash argument for me--if you think he's the best talent just take him, the only valid argument is if "we already have a stud there". You can get a good *insert other position* later in the draft at any spot.

There's just too much equity that barkley is just a third down back in the NFL with the film I've seen so far. (last I'll comment on him in here, think the best comp I heard was garrison hearst (picked 3rd overall ended up with a good career in SF but was a massive bust for his drafted team).

Meh, VORP is a super reasonable reason to pass on a guy early. Obviously you're not going to know exactly how good each player is, but each team should have projections regarding the depth at each position & what sort of player they would be comfortable getting in relation to their needs.

If RB goes 10 deep at solid starters, & EDGE goes 2 deep, there's a lot more value to getting 1 of the 2 EDGE while you can. Not even factoring in that an elite EDGE is a lot more valuable than an elite RB as evidenced by contract values.

Whether you should take Barkley over a Bradley Chubb comes down to a lot more than whether you think Barkley is better at his position than Chubb is at his.

Of course, I think everyone named Chubb is overrated in this draft, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't ever argue that you should take a lesser talent, but RB is particularly deep with guys who could be featured backs this year, so if you have someone with the same grade as Barkley, I wouldn't worry about taking him so much.

I agree with your concerns about Barkley, but the talent is so high-end that poor man's Barry Sanders is still a possible outcome here.

Hearst is a weird one; Matt Waldman always has a section about him in one of his intro chapters. Supreme talent, kind of an idiot outside of football who may have checked out on the Cardinals. Needed to be in the right place to accommodate him, I guess.

Busy now, will try to follow up on other questions later.

So...don't be like the Jags.

Guess you shouldn't draft the #1 Defensive Back in football, 2 above average pass rushers, an average NFL starting OT as a rookie and a number of amazing LBs?

I'll take Caldwells "mishap" of Fournette(I was beating the loudest that I didn't think he was the pick and the elite safety prospect was). But in this case, I'll give Caldwell the benefit of the doubt.

I have Rosen, Jackson, and Mayfield pretty close. Rosen is the prototype (and deservedly) but the other two's production and the way they carried their offenses is undeniable. Probably have Mayfield 3rd based on age if nothing else; Mayfield may be the more productive passer now, but he's also two years older. How good will Rosen and Jackson be in two years?

Any of them I'd be happy with a top-5 pick on.

Darnold I have later toward the first; there are more flaws and downsides there. Still I think he's probably worth taking a chance on.

Rudolph I have as a second-rounder but not a lot of confidence in that grade until I watch more tape.

Allen is more like an end of day 2 pick for me, and that's all on upside (and I wouldn't be heartbroken in the least if I missed him in the third or even the fourth). He'll go in the first though, for the same reasons I had Christian Hackenberg UDFA and he still went in the second.

It's hard because my process is constantly evolving, and there were some years I didn't pay enough attention (2016), and others where I feel like my current process would come up with different results than I did at the time.

Going by where I had them at the time, back to 2014, probably something like...

Jameis
Teddy
Watson
Mahomes
Mariota

GAP

Manziel
Bortles
Goff
Hundley

Kizer
Trubisky
Lynch

Wentz
Cardale
Cook

I think those are all the "top 2 round" grades I gave out at the time. Everyone above the gap is basically a "can't-miss" QB.

Some things would definitely change upon reevaluation: With Manziel I didn't account for Evans enough in his college performance (or what a goddamn off-field mess he was), Goff's film was not as impressive as I'd been led to believe, Cardale's lack of experience should've been more of a factor for me, and should've downgraded Kizer a bit for lack of accuracy (and Cook a fair bit for lack of accuracy and also I didn't know at the time his arm was shot).

I liked Dak more than the consensus but didn't have the guts to raise him on my board beyond ~75 or so IIRC.

Bortles' mechanics have obviously been a problem, but he also had great numbers at UCF and elevated them to one of the top teams in the nation. (Not that I think Bortles is comparable to Watson, but "mobile QB with imperfect mechanics yet elevates his team anyway" describes them both, although Watson elevated his team much higher, much more consistently, and for three years, not one.)

Wentz apparently was highly regarded by teams in part because of his intelligence and ability to make pre-snap reads and calls, which is a tough thing to figure out watching film from one season starting for a run-first FCS team.

I really hope the Bills don't pick a QB at 22. It's the "death spot."

2014 1 22 Johnny Manziel
2012 1 22 Brandon Weeden
2007 1 22 Brady Quinn
2004 1 22 J.P. Losman
2003 1 22 Rex Grossman

There were two other quarterbacks drafted 22nd overall in NFL history: Paul Campbell (1948) and Eddie Crowder (1953). Neither of them put on a uniform for an NFL team.

Good luck.

Im speaking spefically to the idea of a team that needs QB (Browns or Giants) drafting a RB over QB. Like the Jags did when they decided they would rather give Bortles a super expensive crutch instead of drafting Watson or Mahomes or trading down since multiple teams were offering 2 1sts to move up for those QBs.

Speaking of QBs, it would be sweet to see my boy Luis Perez get drafted. I’m sure it won’t happen because he’s D-II and it’s a stacked QB class this year. But dude was legit the best in that entire division. 2017: 5K yards, 46 TDS, Harlon Hill winner (D-II Heisman), and Nat’l Championship winner.

Without having done any research, I would bet you could say that about almost all spots from 20-32 in the first round. So take a QB.