thats obviously not what hes saying

Crabtree's progression has been more consistent, and he's a better all around receiver. DHB might end up being better, but Im taking Crabtree all day

catch rates:
Crabtree 64% 114 targets
DHB 56% 115 targets

DHB certainly compiled more stats than he should have with Denarious Moore and Jacoby Ford injured for significant portions of the season. Crabtree also rated a fair amount higher as a blocker on PFF

Why, because you don't like it?

Sorry, 6 TDs in 39 starts is negligible and scoring matters. But then 35 ypg isn't great either.

Neither is his getting a catch on 55.7% of targets. Which is tied for 100th best of 245 WRs in the league with a catch last year.

So I'm not cherry-picking one bad stat because I don't like the guy, it's the whole thing. You gave just his yardage in your post, so maybe you're using that as your crutch. But as I demonstrated in my last post, that yardage is completely unremarkable in today's league. So, without getting into fluffy intangibles and all of that, what is it that he did that impresses you so much? Which good defenses did he tear up? What good corners did he match up and beat?

[And before we even get into the QB excuses bit, there are plenty of WRs in the league that produced more with QB problems and rookie starters. Check for yourself.]

If you just said he's young and might be turning a corner yeah I could see that, but you seem to want to make him out to be something he just hasn't been yet. Are you a Raiders homer or something? Because I don't see whatever it is you're seeing. I watched only 7-8 Oakland games but they seem to have covered most of his better ones.

That is great they produce but everyone said he was a raw talent coming out of college. It was going to take time to develop. So now that time has passed and he is developing his ceiling is now lower because he didn't produce in the years he was supposed to be developing?

I don't get it...

Don't know if you were responding to me but I didn't say that. I have no idea what his ceiling is or isn't and said right off he might do well with his career. All I'm saying is that the quote that TNM posted earlier and took such issue with,

is a more than fair statement. It doesn't preclude the possibility that he later makes a splash, just that he hasn't done so yet. No more or less. As far as being drafted raw ok, sure, everyone knew he was a reach at the time and lol raiders. But he's also gotten a lot of starts and starter reps so I'd think a stud receiver would develop a little quicker than a #4 or 5 practicing with the 2nd team, but w/e. He's going into year 4 now and I'm not even sure he's a true #1.

It's hard to develop as a receiver when you change QBs and OCs with the frequency the Raiders have since DHB has been there.

That said, the funniest part of all is that DHB and Crabtree were the first two six WRs drafted in the first round that year, and are probably the worst two of the bunch.

chargers not franchising vjax, dude gonna get paid

perfect fit with ne imo

Crabtree has done pretty well despite playing with a bottom 10 QB in a run first offense. He could be really good with even a marginal improvement at QB

diva for sure tho

The Packers certainly aren't gonna franchise Flynn because then they would be on the hook to pay for $15m to their backup QB, amiright?

Too bad DHB didn't fall to them.

Doubt it, but I can't rule it out. The thing is that Flynn would snap-sign the franchise tender, which guarantees him that salary.

If GB were to do that it would be with the intent to get some kind of trade value for him. Effectively they'd be buying themselves a draft pick or two in exchange for the lost $14.4m in cap space. Maybe a 2nd + 5th or whatever Flynn turns out to be worth to someone else. Is that the way to go when you're a contender today, as opposed to spending that money to improve the team with free agents now?

They could let him walk, and if he goes out and starts then they could get a compensatory pick at the bottom of the third for free. Unless they have some back-door deal brewing at the combine that assures they'll get a first rounder or something good.

His intermediate routes are fine, not supercrisp but he has size to make up for it. I don't know where you get the long ball tracking from, I recall a bunch of balls were thrown his way without much accuracy.
I'm quite happy we have him these days. I was fairly mad on draft day but he has gotten better and improved (and was better than I thought).

Re: Crabtree...he would be way sicker if they had made him a slot guy from the getgo. That's where he's best imo. I think the comparison is valid because pretty much everyone said "ZOMG they could have drafted Crabtree...fail" while in reality they are pretty different receiver types imo


Iirc Crabtree was in the low 50s last season (2010). Fitz has been low...don't remember what site has CR/where to find career CR stats though.

Who's going to watch all five hours of lineman and TE's working out today?

I'm recording it and I'll sort of cruise through it I'm guessing.

Really excited for tomorrow though when QB's and RB's are up.

dont agree with this at all, Crabtree is a legit #1 WR, ace #2 stuck in a crappy passing offense

So if they tag him and then trade him immediately, they still have to pay him the 14.4m? I thought the other team would just sign him to an extension and then the tag becomes moot.

Actually no I goofed overthinking it for some reason. It would vanish if Flynn were to agree to a new deal elsewhere as part of a franchise tender/trade situation. I still get confused over some of those. Essentially they work out the new deal before trading and sign him, but make the first payment due a week later and trade him, so the due date happens on the new team. Outsmarted myself, sorry. Franchise tag is ok.

However: if Flynn didn't like another team's offer could simply decline and still be assured $14.4 of the Packers' cash this year, which gives him a fair amount of leverage. He'll get a decent offer and make it easy I'm sure, but a couple weird things could happen when a player is willing to sign their tender.

In an extreme situation, say Flynn really favored say Miami and liked their contract offer above all else, but Miami (knowing this) refused to offer more than a 5th rounder to Green Bay. Flynn could hold up the show, which would be bad for GB as teams have to be under the cap by March 13th, the day free agency starts, and they probably want to do stuff. A little disloyal maybe but then again he did get franchise tagged, preventing him from being an UFA.

I'd still assume GB would have some idea that they have a trading partner in hand before they were tag Flynn, and that he's at least on board enough not to be difficult about it. And you'd also have to be certain Flynn can fetch an offer he likes, which I assume is that case but don't know how other teams see him.

Once Flynn gets his money he should send a thank you card to KC for ending the perfect season and getting him a start.

apparently we lost the coin toss to the dolphins, standard

you have cam newton suckle a dong

haha, seriously, the dolphins are going to do something dumb with the pick anyway so who cares

Dang, and the Seahawks lost to the Chiefs.

What was the avg distance per target

flaccololololololllllllll asking for a $15m/yr extension

matt ryan likely to sign extension

Seemed like a lot when I first saw it but considering what starting QB contracts are looking like any more he might get fairly close to that. He is under contract for another year though, after which he could be franchise tagged, so I'm sure he comes down or gets less guaranteed.

What do Ravens fans consider him to be worth? He seems like a solid enough starter and fit even if not a top five guy. $15m is just about Vick/Brady money but then again the cap shoots up in two years. Matt Ryan's two years out from free agency so ATL wants him locked up too for same reason.

Bowe getting tagged by KC

no clue, but I'll assume DHB's was longer considering he had Palmer while Crabtree had dink n dunk Alex Smith