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NFL 2012 Offseason Thread NFL 2012 Offseason Thread

03-15-2012 , 12:34 AM
so happy to see that megatron contract, should free up things for this year and keeps the best WR in the NFL in town.

6'5", 4.3, 40 inch vertical, ~130-140 IQ

lol so sick.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 12:57 AM
Megatron's young yet and looks insane, with all kinds of silly unfair measurables. Putting his production in context relative to other WRs over their 1st five seasons though, he's not unique. Stats are just stats but all told he's pretty comparable to Fitzgerald in that range, who had some good & bad Kurt Warner years and a whole bunch of clowns QB'ing his team. Way too early to start talking GOAT for CJ.

Moss… If Moss had this or that QB or some actual WIM then who knows. I'd rather give him his due based on what he actually did.

Jerry Rice though. Tell you about goddamn Jerry Rice. Rice was so good you could subtract his final 10 seasons (which includes his career year stat-wise) and he's still easily a HOF player. And that would short him almost 10,000 yards and 66 TDs, roughly comparable to Keyshawn Johnson's 11-year career production. People talk about how good his QBs were but then when we starting comparing Young or Montana to another QB it’s Jerry Rice’s name that comes up. Then he’s got another 29 games worth of playoffs where his production works out to the equivalent of pair of 1,200 yard/12 TD seasons if prorated to 32 games.

But **** the stats, all you had to do is watch him play and consistently devastate defenders year after year. He wasn’t a LeBron type like CJ or Moss where he outjumped or outran or outmuscled everybody. He did sometimes maybe but he was more like a Wayne Gretzky who just outskated everybody and killed you with technique. You count to four and he’s free of double coverage and open somewhere you didn’t want him. He was never all that fast or really anything you could point out as physically standout but that's what was so insidious about him.
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03-15-2012 , 01:28 AM
I love Megatron, he's unbelievable, but I watch Moss highlights and he was just silly:

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03-15-2012 , 01:31 AM
moss was just so ****ing amazing. i mean he made daunte ****ing culpepper a near-All-Pro QB. so frustrating that what he was was still an all-time great and he STILL managed to underperform
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03-15-2012 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
Megatron's young yet and looks insane, with all kinds of silly unfair measurables. Putting his production in context relative to other WRs over their 1st five seasons though, he's not unique. Stats are just stats but all told he's pretty comparable to Fitzgerald in that range, who had some good & bad Kurt Warner years and a whole bunch of clowns QB'ing his team. Way too early to start talking GOAT for CJ.

Moss… If Moss had this or that QB or some actual WIM then who knows. I'd rather give him his due based on what he actually did.

Jerry Rice though. Tell you about goddamn Jerry Rice. Rice was so good you could subtract his final 10 seasons (which includes his career year stat-wise) and he's still easily a HOF player. And that would short him almost 10,000 yards and 66 TDs, roughly comparable to Keyshawn Johnson's 11-year career production. People talk about how good his QBs were but then when we starting comparing Young or Montana to another QB it’s Jerry Rice’s name that comes up. Then he’s got another 29 games worth of playoffs where his production works out to the equivalent of pair of 1,200 yard/12 TD seasons if prorated to 32 games.

But **** the stats, all you had to do is watch him play and consistently devastate defenders year after year. He wasn’t a LeBron type like CJ or Moss where he outjumped or outran or outmuscled everybody. He did sometimes maybe but he was more like a Wayne Gretzky who just outskated everybody and killed you with technique. You count to four and he’s free of double coverage and open somewhere you didn’t want him. He was never all that fast or really anything you could point out as physically standout but that's what was so insidious about him.
Nice, that's nice.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 01:48 AM
so... peyton hills cost himself $30M, $10M guaranteed by not signing last fall?

tough beat.
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03-15-2012 , 01:52 AM
6:29 is my favorite Moss play ever I think, how he gets by that defender without getting pushed out of bounds is just ridiculous
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03-15-2012 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillNye
Ya but you could spend that money on three players as well as get really good compensation in a trade (players that are better than their contract not players that = their contract, also 1st round picks, etc).
GMing 101:
If you have elite+youngish in a category with not so many elites you extend and don't trade.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chim17
Meh.. could see elite pass rushers being as valuable.. or elite LT's.

I would probably personally put Calvin as the top non-QB, though.. and ahead of a whole hell of a lot of QB's.
+Revis

(I'd take Calvin over any non-QB in a heartbeat though)

Last edited by clowntable; 03-15-2012 at 02:22 AM.
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03-15-2012 , 02:19 AM
Man those highlights were sick. I was pretty young and not a huge nfl fan when he was in his prime so i hadnt seen a lot of that stuff. The amount of seperation he got on people, when it was obviously that he was just running in a straight line, is insane. Also his ability to get YAC was really great. Lastly, its not like he was just a straight line deep threat, he could also take a quick out to the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsRainingMen
moss was just so ****ing amazing. i mean he made daunte ****ing culpepper a near-All-Pro QB. so frustrating that what he was was still an all-time great and he STILL managed to underperform
Ya, good comparison as a guy with all the physical talents, and still underachieved his potential I think is shaq.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillNye
Seems like trading Calvin is better than giving up that contract. With those premiere guys youre forced to pay them what they're worth and then youre just getting what you paid for, not a deal. I'd rather trade Calvin get the best offer you can and spend his money on other players.
Economically your logic is sound, but imo when considering top 3 players at a position, its still worth it assuming you don't overpay too much. You're sacrificing a massive edge vs. pretty much every team in the league for a more balanced team. Unless your team is otherwise bereft of talent, I don't think thats the right play
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneel B4 Zod
meh, with no line to kick over, no time pressure, and the ball just sitting there propped up perfectly, and on high school goal posts, I think you'd be surprised how well people can kick. our high school kicker could routinely make 50+ under those circumstances

that said this guys % seem a good deal off
it's possible if he's an actual kicker, but still suspect. was going to say the opposite wrt the bolded. i've won, i'd say hustled, a # of bets having people attempt fgs


edit: +1 to rice being the goat wr


edit2: wrt calvin, had to be done, he's super-duper elite, etc. however, i can understand doing so reticently
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03-15-2012 , 02:21 AM
7:36 IMO

That acceleration is not human
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03-15-2012 , 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needle77
It's nice to be flashy and all but in reality we have seen how you win a championship. I mean, you being a Colts fan saw it just as well. It's how you attack the QB and how you defend the QB(When not talking about QB play being #1).

Is Calvin a tremendous asset? Yeah, he is in the top tier of assets in the league, no doubt. But dropping a percentage of your salary cap on a WR...I'm personally not crazy about it. Did they have to? Yeah I think they did.
Pretty good QB protection if he can just toss the ball in the general direction of the WR for +yards.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 02:27 AM
i like the play at 7:00 the best, looks like theres no way in hell he can get separation, yet manages to get a 1/2-1 step by the end of the end zone.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin21
Chad Henne to the Jags on 2 year deal
"The Needle Deal"

Quote:
do you realize how easy it is for WR's to put up crazy #'s now? it's not even the same game as 3 years ago. statements like this are silly.
I see this argument a lot (aimed at rules not general skills increase over time) but the other side is usually not mentioned. How do you think CJ would do if you put him on some Rice1-era team? I think there's a good argument that he'd dominate even more.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tyler_cracker
meh. not heavy enough for dl, too slow for cb/safety.
He can tripple jump though. Probably GOAT RB if you can get a steady supply of stars.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys

~130-140 IQ
this is a funny joke...isn't this near genus level??
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03-15-2012 , 04:50 AM
*genius...hahahahahaha
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03-15-2012 , 06:08 AM
I looked it up. An IQ of 140, depending on which scale you use, would make you either a 1-in-161 or a 1-in-261 rarity.

IQ scores have a lot of problems. I can remember what I scored as a kid, and I'm just not that real-world smart. It just happened that I had a decent vocabulary and an eye for patterns and things the test was looking for. But we're talking about receivers and not analysts. Listen to Terrell Owens speak for 5 minutes or consider Randy Moss's Wonderlic and I think we can disregard those sorts of measurements for receivers, unless they're absolute morons who can't read a playbook.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 06:18 AM
I would have no issues tradin megatron if the team sucked but you can't sacrifice winning equity now for a more balanced team later. Ffs the dude was being guarded like a punt gunner on the goal line.
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03-15-2012 , 08:30 AM
calvin johnson is really really smart.

i can understand why someone from pittsburgh would be unfamiliar with such as person because why would anyone intelligent choose to be there
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03-15-2012 , 09:28 AM
always love it when a randy mix gets posted, followed by 10-20 people going "zomg wtf" like clockwork. so glad he's back
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03-15-2012 , 10:12 AM
If you don't like Calvin Johnson, you don't get it.
NFL 2012 Offseason Thread Quote
03-15-2012 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMIGLET
Economically your logic is sound, but imo when considering top 3 players at a position, its still worth it assuming you don't overpay too much. You're sacrificing a massive edge vs. pretty much every team in the league for a more balanced team. Unless your team is otherwise bereft of talent, I don't think thats the right play
Economically I don't think the logic is sound. You have a limited number of roster spaces/snaps that can be played on an NFL team. A simple WAR/Salary is not sufficient otherwise, to use an extreme example 30 WRs with 0.1 WAR = 1 WR with 3 WAR. The relationship between salary and war for an individual player should not be linear it should be geometric and elite talent should be paid more because they are scarce and because they use up less roster spots.
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