No way would they do that though. Russ means so much $$ for the owners even if it is for playing on a flawed, 1st rd exit, perennial 45 win team.

It'll still be a few years before that gets entertained I think.

Lots of teams do things they shouldn't do. So, the question is, should OKC move on from Westbrook or should they try to put the best team possible around him while he is still a good player?

Some posters ITT say teams should maximize ring equity. Would they pull the trigger on blowing it up if they owned the team and thought that a RWB-centric team was highly entertaining in the regular season and had practically zero chance at a title in the post season?

If so, what team should be interested in trading for Russ?

It's Oklahoma city and no team is going to pay over the odds for that Russ contract, they really don't have a path to winning a championship for the next 5 years so honestly keeping russ, sell the tickets and tweet about his triple doubles seems like the best play

It's Oklahoma City though. Having Russ triple double and sell tickets is a really good outcome for them, blowing it up when the best result is likely being a 45-50 win team (after years of losing) just wouldn't really make sense. Maybe in a few years when this Russ thing gets old for them.

I think most would agree OKC should try to put the best team possible around him. Especially in a GSW-world where ring equity is low for everyone.

He's just the type of player that his value right now is so much higher to OKC than it is to another team. The types of teams with the assets to get him would just be OKC-lite after getting him and good teams can't really fit Russ 5/205 into their team or wouldn't have the assets to acquire him.

But to engage in your hypothetical...
If I'm the Celts/Blazers I still swap Kyrie/Lillard for him, Toronto could consider Lowry for him but what's OKC want with those guys? Exactly.

Maybe Nuggs wanna gamble and step up to the big leagues and give Murray in a deal for him? I dunno, be interesting to see Russ with a great passing big and shooters.

In the real world, he's just not someone that is switching teams anytime soon.

I thought all the Hinkie fans believed that every team that has no path to improving to beat the Warriors should bottom out and go through The Process for the next five or however many years that Golden State looked to have a window of being the favorites.

I live in OKC. Plenty of people are pissed that they have squandered all their assets and have no chance to win any time soon. Those of you suggesting that OKC just wants to watch Russ 40% usage it up with 45% TS over the next 4-5 years while they win 35-45 games and do nothing to build for the future are way off base. Yes those people exist but they are idiots and in the minority imo. The local talking heads have been going nuts talking about how dumb the Thunder are for pretty much the last 6 months. Even the biggest mouthbreather gets how bad they have blown it. I am not sure more of the same is going to be acceptable for long.

People are pissed and I expect heads to roll this offseason. Presti should be gone. Donavan will be gone.

In your opinion, how many OKC fans think that Russ is part of the problem?

Even if that is true, they still prefer a slightly improved Russ team that makes the 2nd rd and gives them some hope to trading him and starting over.

I do agree tho, the current act probably only has 2 more years of shelf life.

Not many think he is the whole problem, some like me think he is part of the problem. My own personal view is that Russ is flawed and he is only part of the problem because Presti has mismanaged the franchise over the last 6-7 years. When he had complimentary pieces around him the flaws could be hidden more even though they still came out some.

The main problem is that Presti turned KD, Harden, Dipo into nothing basically. He also made almost no good trades and has drafted poorly for years as well. Doing dumb stuff like starting Perk( and paying him 10m/yr back when that was a fairly big contract) when you could amnesty him, never having a 2 guard who could shoot, hiring his buddy as coach rather than someone competent all squandered their best chances to ring. The injuries didn't help either but Presti should be laughed out of the league. Under the surface there are insane deals most people don't know about like signing Singler for 25m, focusing on getting bigger when modern strategy is the opposite, etc. He has also traded a ton of picks and assets away for nothing when that is the only chance OKC has to win, to draft well and maximize return on assets

It's hard to blame Russ when he plays his ass off most nights even if he is especially flawed as a 1st option super high usage guy. Had Presti made any good moves for the last 6-7 years the team would have a much different makeup and Russ would have the same flaws but they would be able to be mitigated some as they were in the Thunder peak years.

I just don't think people are as dumb as you think. It's obvious Russ and whoever isn't going to do anything and most people realize that the only chance OKC has to be relevant again is through the draft which is going to require processing it up.

Did they enjoy last season? I'm sure they did. The triple double run, the MVP run until it came crashing to a halt vs Houston. It's just getting old now, you gotta add or subtract a player or two. I'm sure there was a lot of optimism going into the year.

If they bring the exact same team back they won't enjoy it, but if you add a few pieces, put some lipstick on the pig then I think it can go for a few more years.

People did not enjoy 2017-2018 season here much. The level of discontent was by far the worst it has been since I moved here in 2010. 2016-2017 was entertaining to an extent. I for one was very pessimistic about the moves made by Presti last offseason and voiced it in the offseason thread and suggested they should have blown it up last offseason. Yes lots of people here thought they were great moves but I don't think anyone who really follows the NBA thought they had much chance to advance past the 2nd round. Imagine a world where you could build around Olidipo/Adams + whatever picks/assets you could get from trading RWB coming off of the MVP year. Or even just trading George/RWB at the trade deadline THIS year after it was obvious the stupid hail mary wasn't working. They could probably be relevant at least 5 years earlier than they are going to be with their current path.

I understand your point that they will sell more tickets keeping RWB and limping along with no chance to be anything. That is probably true. I just don't think its a good move long term at all. Eventually RWB declines even more and then what? You have no assets and no RWB and the bottom will be even worse than it would be when you can jumpstart it at this point to some extent by trading your remaining assets for something rather than just letting them depreciate to nothing to sell a few extra tickets.

I meant '16-17 for last season fwiw

I think you're giving the avg fan way too much credit man. Most people do not care that much about what you are saying. And the Thunder are still the only show in town.

interesting post. can't decide if i agree or disagree. oladipo was called a negative asset by some last year and steven adams is a very useful player, so i don't think its fair to say they flipped 3 of their 4 stars for nothing.

that being said, having ibaka, kanter, and adams on the same roster was kind of absurd. he probably flipped ibaka a year late

looking back at the kanter trade they gave up reggie jackson and a 1st for kanter and singler. seems real bad.

Probably an easier way to look at it is in 2011 he had under team control for multiple years:

Harden: Turned into Adams
RWB: Now paying 30 yo version of him 40m/year until he is 34.
KD:Turned into nothing
Ibaka:Turned into Oladipo who he turned into nothing

Also since then he drafted in the 1st round the following:
Perry Jones
Archie Goodwin
Steven Adams with the Harden trade pick
Josh Huestis
Mitch McGary
Cameron Payne
Domantas Sabonis (who he turned into less than nothing by trading for LOLMelo)
Terrance Fergasun

Notable FA acquisitions:
None

It's hard to imagine doing worse than that. So I'd say the problem with the Thunder in 2018 is about 90% Presti, 10% Russ imo.

Russ is great to watch. lol championships.

What do you think is the market for Marcus Smart this off season? He'd be good on OKC, just surround Westbrook with defenders & let him cook.

A fair bit of this is unfair or just a skewed way of looking at things. He 'turned KD into nothing?' Wat? KD left, nothing he could do about that. He should have traded him you reckon? Also Ibaka he turned into a year of Paul George, almost noone would say that is a bad deal. Also Sabonis was part of the Ibaka -> Oladipo trade and then again Oladipo -> PG, he had nothing at all to do with Melo.

Agree he's been bad, Harden trade obv a complete disaster and drafting been very very poor, and getting Melo was v stupid. But saying 'we had all this in 2011 and now we dont' is a really dumb way of looking at things because they contended for that entire period pretty much. Obv when a period of 6-7 straight season of contending is over you're probably going to have less assets than when you started, that's how it works.

I have a (serious) question, what evidence do we have that Russell Westbrook plays hard?

Do you expect an answer other than empirical?

So now that we all agree Rozier is the future, what can the Celts get for Kyrie?

I'd assume that if they started shopping him, teams are gonna be pretty skeptical about his health given they just traded for him and some teams may feel like the Celts tried to get over on Cle with the IT thing as well.

I just don't know how you pay him 30 when you can probably pay Rozier 15 and he doesn't have the injury history that Kyrie has.

Maybe Kyrie will realize the Celts are his ideal spot and take a little less $.

That would be nice, but since most don't have access to proprietary data, I'll settle for anecdotes about why him running like a lunatic at the rim, or to steal a rebound, is somehow playing harder than Kyle Lowry's getting back on D, fighting around screens, or moving with the pass off ball on offense.

He plays extremely hard at times, other times he's legit lazy. Either he doesn't know how to pace himself, is a stat-chaser, a spazz, or has been poorly coached.

I see your point and it's a good one. Someone like Lowry or Steph plays harder despite a reputation that wouldn't suggest it.

Because he'd be Monta Ellis if he didn't.

He's restricted, so that complicates things. I think the Celtics are prepared to easily match any full non-taxpayer MLE contract and probably a few million more than that, so his market seems to be somewhere between Lou Williams and Andre Roberson? The offer sheet that Boston might not match is probably going to have to be at least $12 million per year and maybe as much as $15 million.

Which teams would be willing to sign Smart to a big offer sheet? Most of the teams with cap space should be in tank mode unless Smart is part of a spending spree. I don't think Philly is the right fit, so the team most likely to throw money at Smart might be the Pacers.

If no team wants to sign Smart to a big offer sheet, he could end up signing a shorter, smaller contract as other restricted free agents have ended up doing. Or, he could bet on himself by taking the qualifying offer and entering unrestricted free agency in 2019 when more teams have cap space. Co-sixth man on a possible championship team feels like the sort of player who has a shot at getting overpaid.