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NBA Season Thread 2016-2017 NBA Season Thread 2016-2017

11-17-2016 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheeljks
Embiid's usage is 40% lol. That is incredible, esp for a big. Super efficient shooting too, though he has a boatload of tovs. And only playing half the game but still

Edit: I think superstar includes non-basketball related criteria. Someone like Blake is more of a star than Kiwi
He draws fouls at a ridiculous rate. His college FTr of .836 was the highest I found while looking through sportsreference. Safe to say that it's translated to the pros.

I couldn't find a way to sort for all-time leaders in FTr but the second highest I found while searching players individually was .769 - Ben Simmons.
11-17-2016 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw0586
What does someone rebounding one of his free throw misses have to do with his true shooting percentage?
Nothing I guess, but what does sorting through pbp for a very minor and nitty correction gain you?

Steph shooting techs may only have marginal benefit, but it's still a benefit. No reason to ignore it.

DeAndre going to the line obv isn't as good as most, but it has value outside of his direct ability to score there: namely an inflated Oreb rate and of course the fouls themselves.

I dunno, I guess the piece just didn't really provide any great insight.
11-17-2016 , 02:02 PM
Did the rebound rate off his fts persist? Thought those #s were only from a partial season. It's hard to believe they could reliably rebound fts more often than other teams with their best rebounder as the shooter
11-17-2016 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin
Nothing I guess, but what does sorting through pbp for a very minor and nitty correction gain you?

Steph shooting techs may only have marginal benefit, but it's still a benefit. No reason to ignore it.

DeAndre going to the line obv isn't as good as most, but it has value outside of his direct ability to score there: namely an inflated Oreb rate and of course the fouls themselves.

I dunno, I guess the piece just didn't really provide any great insight.
To me, it's always good to recognize the limitations of certain stats, when those limitations exist. I find that far more interesting than a bunch of white people talking about how black people should feel about certain things.

It's certainly applicable if you're making projections that rely on exact data, rather than estimates. Those small statistical errors can become problematic if you're looking to make exact projections over large sample sizes.
11-17-2016 , 07:02 PM
Going forward would you rather have a healthy Embiid or the Unicorn NBA Season Thread 2016-2017 Porzingis?
11-17-2016 , 07:04 PM
Embiid is a lock to be healthy?
11-17-2016 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin
Nothing I guess, but what does sorting through pbp for a very minor and nitty correction gain you?

Steph shooting techs may only have marginal benefit, but it's still a benefit. No reason to ignore it.

DeAndre going to the line obv isn't as good as most, but it has value outside of his direct ability to score there: namely an inflated Oreb rate and of course the fouls themselves.

I dunno, I guess the piece just didn't really provide any great insight.
It's just tightening up one part of the calculation by removing an approximation that is only there so that the formula is entirely calculable from the box score. The data is there elsewhere, might as well actually calculate it properly.
11-17-2016 , 07:16 PM
Embiid ainec
11-17-2016 , 08:19 PM
I agree, Embiid ainerc.

The way that they are playing him is sort of a circus at this point, but if he can actually shoot 3's like he has been, and I wouldn't put it past him, he will be an impossible guard and unlike KaT and perhaps AD he doesn't have that far to go defensively, at least from what I've seen.
11-17-2016 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw0586
To me, it's always good to recognize the limitations of certain stats, when those limitations exist. I find that far more interesting than a bunch of white people talking about how black people should feel about certain things.

It's certainly applicable if you're making projections that rely on exact data, rather than estimates. Those small statistical errors can become problematic if you're looking to make exact projections over large sample sizes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai-
It's just tightening up one part of the calculation by removing an approximation that is only there so that the formula is entirely calculable from the box score. The data is there elsewhere, might as well actually calculate it properly.
yeah, fine, just seems like if I went through all that trouble and I see DeAndre being the worst case guy going from super efficient to super efficient just a little less, I'd be pretty meh.

And as far as projections, if you're using pbp you shouldn't care that much about individual efficiency anyway. Everything in basketball is context dependent. Speaking theoretically since I don't have the hard data in front of me, but, hypothetically, the fact that DeAndre is really a 60.5 realTS% guy instead of 61.1%.. that 0.6% discrepancy might not matter due to the clippers constantly getting in the bonus due to the fouls he draws, and the extra OReb rates from his wild form.

On the flip side, it wouldn't shock me if guys we considered efficiency studs like Kevin Martin and Corey Maggette didn't really boost overall team ORtg that much due to other problems with their game (lack of drawn doubles, poor passing, ball-stopping, etc).
11-17-2016 , 10:09 PM
Wiggins is silky smooth
11-17-2016 , 10:15 PM
Embust never gonan stay healthy, so gimme the Krispy Zinger Unicorn i guess
11-17-2016 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228
Sooooo much wrong in your post, but glad to see that my one day of Nuggets posting in the last three weeks brought you out CVig. I'm not even going to explain how results oriented and wrong it is (here's a hint, SRS ignores H/R splits). Instead I will offer up a bet that Denver exceeds your 35 win ceiling this year, I'll even go up from my usual small amount. I can understand if you don't want to though because you know of your own wrongness.

Also maybe you should post about other things than your disdain for anything I write about the Nuggets, there are plenty of other homers here for you to go after.
What would you like to wager on o35 wins?

if you're convinced denver is anything but bad to mediocre im happy to oblige with my money
11-18-2016 , 01:12 AM
I will quintuple my usual bet of 50, does 250 work?

36 wins I win anything lower you do.
11-18-2016 , 02:10 AM
11-18-2016 , 09:40 AM
Yes, booked
11-18-2016 , 11:09 AM
In terms of pure ceiling Future Staps > future healthy Embiid

7"2 with defensive ability + Dirk offense is probably a better player than 7" Hakeem

I think Embiid will never drain 3 at 40% like staps will do
11-18-2016 , 11:15 AM
This kid has played 9 games in the league, let's let the comparisons to Olajuwon simmer for a bit
11-18-2016 , 11:19 AM
Philly still apparently trusting the process. Gonna have a top 5 pick forever and still suck
11-18-2016 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eltbus
Philly still apparently trusting the process. Gonna have a top 5 pick forever and still suck


I might be crazy but I think Philly could finally not be complete AIDS next year. They'll have their own pick which is almost certainly going to be top 5, and the Lakers top 3 protected pick (which is almost guaranteed to convey barring a monumental collapse). I do love LUKE and company but I expect some Lakers regression and then that'll end up being like a late lottery pick prob. Then then have approximately a billion dollars in cap space and the BIID so people might actually want to play there. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
11-18-2016 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
Yes, booked
Booked. I'm before they go 5-11 and you start chirping, only to you disappear when they are ~.500 before Christmas.
11-18-2016 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullen
I might be crazy but I think Philly could finally not be complete AIDS next year. They'll have their own pick which is almost certainly going to be top 5, and the Lakers top 3 protected pick (which is almost guaranteed to convey barring a monumental collapse). I do love LUKE and company but I expect some Lakers regression and then that'll end up being like a late lottery pick prob. Then then have approximately a billion dollars in cap space and the BIID so people might actually want to play there. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
If not next year, I can see them making a huge jump the year after. Their record will all but guarantee them one of the young studs in a PG rich draft, which seems to have been their biggest issue. I think the hope is that one of their two Euro wings pans out and then they'd finally have a full roster.

How is Embiid in the PnR? His nba.com stats look good as far as PPP goes, but they don't seem to run it a lot. If his game evolves into more of out inside-out post up guy, I could see there being issues with the fit. If not and he's cool with running PnRs for days, they could really be a handful with potentially very good 1/5 PnRs and elite 4/5 PnRs.

They have a long way to go, but at least there is a path to them being very good now after all these years.
11-18-2016 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guivre1408
In terms of pure ceiling Future Staps > future healthy Embiid

7"2 with defensive ability + Dirk offense is probably a better player than 7" Hakeem

I think Embiid will never drain 3 at 40% like staps will do



Dunno about defense, but can easily argue Embiid's offensive ceiling is higher. Looks like he can score from anywhere on the floor.

Edit: In the post in particular. Death of post play has been discussed, but Embiid is unusually large, as are most of the dominant post players. He may be a terror down there

Last edited by tarheeljks; 11-18-2016 at 02:43 PM.
11-18-2016 , 02:54 PM
His turnovers are a pretty big concern. You'd expect a rookie to struggle but he's looked really really awkward when being doubled and trying to pass it out from the post some of the passes were awfully bad. Can improve that obviously but at times he looked like he'd never been doubled in his life before. The way basketball is going it's going to be hard for his post-ups to be great if he's turning it over a lot and can't find shooters.

In before he breaks the Turnover/assist record
11-18-2016 , 03:11 PM
The turnovers are an issue, but it should be expected for a high usage young player to commit a lot of turnovers. "High" usage also understates it, granted it is inflated by the high turnover numbers. Still, they will certainly improve with time, though his abilities as a passer are a different question. I am only talking about upside right now though and he's got a lot of it. Aspects of modern defense make posting trickier, but Embiid is enormous as I noted in my previous post. Not many people will be able to deny him position reliably-- think his ftr and usage speak to that.

      
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