We can't put Durant top 25 already?

well ok .. could be .. look at a list of the top small forwards oat and wonder whether katie and kawhi will make the top 4.

some people to populate your list: Bird, Baylor, Pippen, Dr J, Dominique, LeBron

above basically everyone but Lebron

I think all 3 are big favs to end up at least in the 3rd tier, if not the 2nd tier of modern era players

Tier 1: Lebron, MJ, Shaq
Tier 2: Duncan, Hakeem, DRob, KG
Tier 3: Malone, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Stockton, Barkley, etc.


In fact, if we're talking about just their primes and we're building superteams then I think you can make a good case that Kawhi and Durant should go #4 and #5 all time. SF/PF hybrids who are dominant on both sides of the ball(and can play off-the-ball on O) are insanely valuable for superteams imo.

probably needs another 3-4 seasons or maybe 2 seasons and a title imo. I mean he is only 28. Guy has another 5 years of playing at an extremely high level then another 3-8 of valuable production ahead.

It's pretty clear that by your criteria Jokic and KAT are >>>> Kawhi and katie

not even going to Embiid - #1 oat

**** it I'll jump into the jwax action. Same conditions as mjw. Harden v Westbrook. $100. Quote to confirm.

Unsaid in this Harden v Westbrook debate is that the near universal dislike for Harden among NBA followers is probably more powerful than the record difference. Some people e.g. AJ types would off themselves before putting 1. Harden on a ballot.

What're the odds for the rox right now to win the west?

If those are the actual odds I'm about to unload the clip on that

wait

wtf

you have Drob, KG above Magic and Bird rather than vice versa???


lolu

Lebron
CP3
Durant
Wade
RWB
Curry
Dirk
Harden

All have top 25 equity, some are locks (top 3, maybe 4 with Wade and Dirk) and others need some more time/performance.

Kawhi is really good but before the last 2 years he wasn't sick but at 24/25 and his current stats he definitely has a shot if he remains elite.

KAT has the stats, can he improve on D.
Davis has the stats, can he stay healthy and make his team elite. Davis is 3rd all time in PER (he doesn't qualify yet for B-Ref's list of Career PERs).
Giannis has 1 elite season at 22 and his jump from year 3 to 4 has been obscene. He needs a few more years of elite play to be considered.

I think Klay/Kyrie aren't good enough to be in the same group as the guys above unless they make monster jumps which they are doubtful to do under their current team's construction.

Not sure about Cousins but probably not good enough. Bosh/Love/D12/Anthony/Pau are drawing dead. Might be underrating Blake.

Embiid is interesting but I ain't crowing nobody who plays 31 games in 3 seasons.

Huh? I never said he was a bad player. For true fans of the game his flopping, lack of defense, and style of play is nauseating.

His commercials are brutal and all signs point towards being a unfunny tool with zero self awareness.

Having said that pg is a lot more beneficial for him since his defensive liability can be mitigated better and he can showcase his passing.

Kiwi seems like the obvious mvp to me. I think frauden deserves consideration, unlike the year he proclaimed to he the mvp, but couldn't hold up stephs jock strap.

Kiwi seems obvious but that team is pretty damn good even without him. Can't say the same without Harden on Houston.

Exactly, you would never vote for him.

Not true. Could you please make your case for harden>kiwi for mvp?

Russ is the clear MVP (which is insane given the year a few of these guys are having) but they'll give it to Harden for sure.

I don't really care enough to make a case. These are my thoughts though on who should win.

LeBron wins if it's the best player, or best player on the best team.

Westbrook wins if difference between wins with and wins without matter and you discount LeBron

Harden wins if you consider highest EV to win a championship difference, if you ignore LeBron.

Kiwi fits none of these categories, pretty sure he's worse than LeBron, not as impactful as Harden or Westbrook.

Basically LeBron should win it forever, but since nobody does that it probably should go to Harden or possibly Westbrook. Can't see Kawhi or Durant getting it.

1. Harden
2. Kiwi

Looks like Leonard and Harden's teams are both good without them with Leonard's team being very good and Harden being better than other candidates.

RWB leads all candidates....

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...mvp-debate-all

Wake me up when KD is ahead of Lebron in total points at the same age, he is 2000 behind right now at age 28

Other points...

KG is clearly > Magic n Bird

Kawhi > Durant

Russ made a team that would be vying for a bottom 2 record in the league into a playoff team that will be at least the 6 seed.

LeBron made a team that would be battling just for a playoff spot into a legit title contender and the best team in the East.

The Spurs would be a middling playoff team without Kawhi, but he dramatically increases their title equity.

The Rockets would be a bad playoff team without Harden and are a good playoff team with him, but still have slim title hopes.

The Warriors would be title contenders without Durant. Same goes for Steph. Neither is adding a lot of equity.


Should be pretty clear that the MVP should go to THE MASTER or THE GOAT

Almost coincides with Lebron leaving a year sooner than KD did.

You sure about this? Not with the changes they made to the team to get Durant. They've been just okay without Durant so far.

He doesn't have to pass LeBron to be top 4 of all-time.

Also, all its gonna take is him playing as long as LeBron does and being healthy. His career average is actually slightly better and I think his scoring ages better than LeBron's will if they both play til they're 40 or something. This would mean health is the biggest hurdle Durant has to at least making a run at it.

I also think LeBron probably finishes as the all-time leader and if not he will be 2nd barring some major injury trouble or retiring early. He is gonna finish this season 9th all-time and will get to 6th or 7th next year depending on Dirk.