Understood, but both are >>>> terrible Nurkic leaving the game at halftime because he feels like it.

Asking a Bosnian to be the replacement of a Serbian might have played a role in that Nurkic meltdown

My take is that in exactly one year, Nurkic > Plumlee with Plumlee following his brother footsteps of being overpaid during summer, traded 6 months later

I will bet that, combo of PER/WS48/RPM/BPM, minumum minutes played? Five categories so there will definitely be a winner. We can do it from the beginning of the season until the ASB. I'll place a larger amount than I normally do here if you're interested.

pro tip: ignore and hope subjects change

Just trying to make a little money like I am off you Cvig :P

I can also bet Plumlee doesn't get 80M right now if you like, we can even up the stakes. Seeing as you're such an expert, it shouldn't bother you to put some money on it.

[edit] I will even drop that number down if you want to include the off chance that Brooklyn unloads Brook and offers something substantial.

asking to bet on a rollup of dumb catchall advanced stats is the most seadood thing I've ever heard. Go to bed man

CVig has 30 posts in TZ, all but one are disparaging me. He literally provides no content other than hating on me. Well he does provide some useful Nuggets stuff like the following:

Tell me again about the argument that Will Barton is their best payer. Whatever happened to Digables who used to be a good quality poster? What happened in your NBA life that turned you into this? honest question.

That's cause I'm a lurker seadood and pop in only when I think the thread is just off the rails and since you post 3x more than anyone else....

You likely have more posts about the nugs that anyone else has total posts. What else is there to comment on when you take over every convo? It actually gets worse each year and is a huge part (imo) TZ has just lost almost all regular posting

I'm not that upset or anything. I jus woke up and checked the thread and you're losing it over the nugs again. I think you're angry and maybe drunk or something and re-editing posts over and over but if it makes you feel better I promise I don't hold actual hostility toward you since you seem to think I do. Jus think you could chill and post less.

It's more than that and you know it. You are now going on two years of flaming me when you could have just hit the ignore button at any time, but you don't, why? I think you get some sort of fulfillment out of expressing your hatred towards people (or me), otherwise you'd either stop reading, put me on ignore, or not post at all.. It just doesn't add up. You literally post nothing but negativity. I'm sorry but I don't believe that you just lurk and every now and then feel the need to post the same anti-me stuff because you're happy in life. People that are happy just don't do that.

Let go of the hate imo

I'm going to bed. I don't hate you. I just like to read this thread (and used to like posting in it). I honestly do just lurk. Ignoring you would make reading it almost impossible btw. I've been reading 2p2 forever and it's never good when one poster railroads a thread and posts so much more than everyone else. See greee.a.r

Anyway my bad I'll lay off. Hope someone takes you up on your creative bets and even won't mind if you win ours!

Seadood posts about the Nuggets.

You post about Seadood

Seadood, your argument might be reasonable that you don't have enough roster space or minutes to use all of these picks, but wouldn't it just be preferable to try to consolidate picks/prospects to move up during the draft? Let's say you end up with the 15th and 21st picks. Surely you would just prefer to offer them both to move up as high as you can, turning quantity into improved quality of your lottery tickets. While the 21st pick might have a difficult time breaking into the rotation, the 12th pick should have a significantly better chance of ending up a valuable player and breaking into the rotation earlier.

I'm just enjoying Seadood hating on the utility of a #21 pick whilst in the same breath holding that the guy the Nuggs drafted #41 is the future of the franchise and will be a top 10 player for the next 10 years.

I agree with a lot of what Seadood is saying, especially as it relates to how bad Nurkic is. I'm also with him on the value of the Memphis 1st to Denver. The problem with the analysis comes when it's being presented (not just by Seadood, but other Denver writers) like this was Denver's only option to move the pick so why not do it. That pick has value to plenty of teams and it could have been used in a deal that made a lot more sense to improving Denver's future. They have a lot of time to make deals prior to the draft to move the pick and/or Nurkic and I don't think this is anywhere close to the best deal they could have gotten.

I'm not sure I've ever met a passionate Nuggets fan before in real life. Always thought they were one of those joke franchises that we have in professional sports where no one ever really expects them to win anything significant and going to their games is more for the social atmosphere and a night out on the town than anything else.

I'm not going to analyze the Plumlee trade as in depth as many of the stat nerds in this thread but I am a avid basketball fan and do own NBA league pass and watch alot of NBA games. One thing I like about Plumlee in addition to any basketball skill he has is he seems to be one of those glue guys to a team and I think his personality on the court and probably off the court helps elevate the game of the guys he is playing with out there.

On a side note while I was watching Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins do battle today, yesterday for some of you, I couldn't help but think about how Shaq would fair in the "new" NBA.

What are some opinions on how a player like Shaq in his prime would hold up in the modern NBA? I'd imagine he would still be a menace down low on offense but how would his defense hold up against some of these more versatile big men in today's NBA? Also, would his skillset on offense possibly hurt the productivity for alot of teams where spreading the floor and the 3ball have become such a significant part in so many of the successful offenses in the league?

Idk, was wondering and even started contemplating that Shaq might not even have a hall of fame career if thrown in the modern day NBA.

So who's going to produce the next 30 for 30 ? "From top 10 assets to cancer : the rise and fall of Nurkic"

Shaq would rest his nut sack on draymond greens forehead. Modern NBA tea bag

He would still dunk on anyone downlow. Rules have changed and it has made it harder to postup but not that much harder for someone like Shaq.

On D is where it is up in the air, these PG's launch 3's all game off the PnR now. Shaq wasn't a good PnR defender when he played vs far lesser talents like Parker, Bibby, Stoudemire. Tough to say how that would go. Maybe he just doesn't gain weight so he can handle it better.

Also, hard to think someone that big doesn't just get hurt a ton playing now.

But to echo the post above, offensively he would do some version of the tea bag. Early and often.

Subtracting the et: The Fall of Nurk

Shaq only retired like 6 years ago and was still serviceable. In his prime he was obviously much more mobile and capable. He'd still be a great player.

6 years ago there was a total of 0 team who could play a center with 3 point range,

6 years ago Mavericks won a title with Dirk, the only shooting big that wasn't a cancer at every other aspect of the game, who played 97% of his play-off minutes at PF

The league evolved so quickly

Yup, this is exactly how I feel. Denver's side is getting too much flack. The two biggest issues are losing the pick and the fact that they almost certainly could have made a better value trade. Mase is a good player though, and Nurkic is not.

@mjw and Geoff, completely agree, which was my original argument and why I didn't like it. I would have been stoked if they added someone like a Stanley Johnson, Oubre,WCS, or even RHJand just said eff it to having a backup center though.

Re: Shaq- one thing that's worth mentioning is that his supreme efficiency would be less valuable in the modern NBA because offenses have gotten much more efficient in general. I think this plus him struggling on the other end against PnRs and stretch 5s would mitigate his value a good deal.

I honestly think if we took Shaq and Hakeem and played them today it would be something like Dream >>> Shaq.

Disagree. Shaq was an absolute monster. The existence of stretch 5's doesn't mitigate Shaq's value much at all. Very few teams go 5 out, the Warriors/Cavs death lineups are pretty much the only one's that do, and even so, I'm pretty confident the Lakers would gladly let Draymond Green have his pick of any semi-open 3 he wanted if it meant Shaq got to work on the block vs a 6"8 guy. He would eat him up, and then they'd have to double. Then you have the other teams with these stretch 5's- Nuggets, Knicks, Kings, Pelicans, etc- and Shaq could just cross-match onto another guy who is a worse floor spacer- Faried, Noah, etc.

In fact, I would argue that Shaq's edge over Hakeem is bigger in today's era, bc the leagues evolution towards a higher % of 3's would make Hakeem's defensive edge smaller AND a smaller league would make Shaq's offensive edge bigger.

Richaun Holmes is a better player than mason plumlee and he has two years left at $1 million per season. Plumlee might be a better fit because he is better defensively but when you factor in the contract I think Holmes has more value.