Get back on the Process > Utah, I need mote LOLs.

How do you expect Favors returning to his old self and playing 32 mpg of +++ BALL, effecting the Jazz?

I think all the teams except Golden State would rather play healthy Clippers or healthy Rockets rather than playing healthy Jazz in play-offs

i mean, maybe? this would be abnormal though, how often do injured players turn down $

the jazz did an A+ job of team building and have less championship equity than donatas motiejunas' sweat

golden state will lose iguodala and another role player to re-sign Durant and Curry, they'll need good players for free and they can gamble on them

I'm Rudy gay I call for a one year vet min to play off the bench in the best team of the NBA

other solution is clippers don't blow up and you sneak in the blake/CP3/Deandre line-up

Even cavs will have to change some things and oould welcome him

After that you just snatch your 4 years 70/80m in a bad team at 32 yo

Obviously it depends on how Rudy managed his $$$, if he's on the Iverson road, he better get the money when he can

And the 76ers have been terrible for four years and are currently the 29th best team per SRS. If we give them a leg-up and say they are 25th, how does that validate anything? What makes it worse is that their 2nd and 3rd best players aren't going to be playing for them next year or they will be heavily overpaid.

We need to realize just how much of a monumental difference there is between a 25th-ranked team and being in the top 5. Crowning Philly because they've gone on a win streak and beaten a couple good teams in the process (npi) is missing the boat, imo.

I know slurpers have been waiting to say "I told you so", but let's cool the jets until they can at least sniff a playoff spot at least.

Embiid has been great, but nobody except a couple people denied that he would if healthy, and he's barely been healthy. If he gets hurt, which is a very legit risk, then Philly will have gained nothing of value from all this sucking.

Dood,

Is a ridiculous take.

Although this is a pretty awesome quote from yours truly defending the guy I crap on constantly... maybe it's because he burned me.

How is it a ridiculous take? They are 29th in SRS for the season. Are we to expect that they just improved organically and are now a top 10 team or something? Newsflash, teams get hot and cold (see ATL like three times this year alone). If you want to say something like they are a #20 overall when Embiid plays that's fine, but overall their product has been #29 in SRS. It's not like Embiid missed the early part of the year and is now coming back.

Where would you rank them now? I understand they are probably better than #25 going forward, but I'd argue that it's not by much.

the Utah vs Philly debate also depends on how much you think drafting is a skill vs luck. There's certain some skill and some luck, but is it 80/20 or 20/80 or what?

OK I'm ignoring the Rockets part because I'm a filthy homer:

Lol

For instance, how much credit does Utah get for drafting (well, trading for on draft night) Gobert at #27?

That's an insane value, just ridiculous. It's so high above expectations for the #27 pick it makes your mind boggle. Utah might have had a feeling, or some sort of evidence, or whatever, but literally nobody would have predicted you could get the best center in the NBA today with the 27th pick in that draft. So how much credit should Utah get there?

He started top 5 in the 2012 mock draft I think, and declared only in the 2013 one where he was a late lottery pick that slipped because he got paired against Steven Adams and got destroyed in every workout

In the Jazz workout, he didn't played against Steven Adams, they didn't have any late 1st pick at that moment and nobody picked him so they traded for a late first to get him on draft day

Every draft pick includes a healthy dose of luck, but Denis Lindsey has really been perfect at managing what he has

Failed only on the Trey Burke pick, Dante Exum is terrible but I think it's that kind of pick a lot of GM would have failed, he was so hyped

I think it's more about a sample size of picks than singling one out.

Utah has drafted several players who've vastly outperformed their draft slot and one that hasn't. The Jazz have also done something the 76ers should have, which is take a step back and get max value for a player before it's realized he's not in their future good (Kanter/Burke), plus they've done a bang-up job getting guys like Ingles to become solid contributors. They are very Spursian (RJeff) in that they recognize when a move has failed and quickly correct it even if it means getting worse. In their case trading Kanter made them much better, but that wasn't the underlying opinion for many prior to the trade.

Bonus points go to Utah for trading to get Gobert, at the expense of a very good GM in his rookie year who had blinders on for a certain freak from Greece.

It didn't even cost them that. IIRC they traded for the pick that ended up beign Joffrey Lauvergne at around 45 + cash. Too lazy to look it up right now.

tons of credit from a micro perspective, but processors are viewing things from the macro. i.e. they believe that attempting to solve optimal team building given a certain set of objectives and league parameters >>conventional smart team building that half the league is doing right now>>>> dysfunctional kings, knicks, etc.

Maybe gay is down to ring chase, but he can do that later when there is no major $ available to him. I disagree pretty strongly that good teams will give him a look because "he's cheap, so why not." He'll be coming off an injury that ruins mostly everyone and he probably won't even be available til midseason. He will also almost certainly be terrible the season he returns. There is very little upside to picking him up vs some other cheap wing. Particularly in the Warriors case he doesn't do any of the things they would need/want from a bench wing

Utah needs to win a playoff series really badly. If they don't play well I could see Hayward bounce. Then what do they do with Hill?

Gay's plan of opting out is probably ruined, though I just realized his deal is structured such that his 17-18 salary isn't too high (14.2M). There's some change he could get a 3 year 18M deal. I kinda doubt it tho.

There was tons of hate about the Embiid pick (after he re-injured his foot). This is a poker forum that seems more results oriented than the average person. Shows you how most of the posters in this forum are losing poker players.

Although I desperately want it to happen, I don't see Hayward bouncing. Same goes for Hill as I think Utah is going to retain but slightly overpay. Favors is another story though, he could very well be the odd man out.

I kind of want Denver to offer boatloads of money to both Hill and Hayward just to force Utah's hand. Then again both (I think) can get extensions right before free agency so we might see that.

Go back and read our draft thread, it was literally two guys who were against the pick. There were much more arguments for him going number 1 than at 3.

LOL at finding a superstar talent within three years being a normal outcome. Do you know how hard it is to find a superstar? That's why Hinkie's plan makes sense. If you tank for one or two years you need the following to happen: 1) get some lottery luck, 2) hope a generational talent enters the draft that year, 3) actually have the talent materialize, 4) have the player stay healthy.

That's why the bozos who say tanking never works are dealing with a biased sample. You are comparing the Sixers well thought out plan to the plan of terribly run franchises (Kings, Magic). You are conflating losing franchises with tanking.

If you have a team willing to tank and has a long-term vision for success then you have a dangerous team. Owners around the league knew the competitive advantage the Sixers had and agents hated Hinkie because he turned the tables on them. (Take a look at the Covington and Jerami Grant contracts. Hint: 1st year guaranteed followed by 3 years of team options at roughly $1 million per year.)

Why do you think there were so many negative articles written about the Sixers/Hinkie? It was in the best interest of other teams and agents. Who both control the media.

Yeah, that is my point. People were fine with it until the Sixers caught the negative side of variance (re-injuring his foot), then everyone used hindsight and started bashing Hinkie for only taking injured players. Even after he needed a second surgery I said that I would still rather have Embiid than the mediocre players that were taken behind him (Smart, Gordon, etc.)

What this forum has a hard time understanding is that 80% of a team's success is determined by 20% of the players on the court. (The best player on each team disproportionately determines their success/failure.)

You need a superstar to win anything important in the NBA. Hinkie understood this better than anyone. It is also the hardest step to achieve in team building. I would say he created many realistic opportunities to find one (or more) in only three years.

How many teams pass on Joel Embiid with the third pick in Philly's spot? Honest question. I think it's somewhere around 2 or 3, it was a no brainer. Hell even the LOLKings tried to get him from Philly on draft night. Yes, it was the expected outcome there.