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NBA Season Thread 2013-14 NBA Season Thread 2013-14

01-03-2014 , 01:51 PM
Isn't this all b/c of the hand checking rules and increased importance of 3 pointers?
01-03-2014 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethypooh21
They have the room to progress the most. Saying they DO progress the most is pulling stuff from your hindparts.
i am almost certain that on average they progress more than other types.
01-03-2014 , 01:53 PM
also PATTY is a huge sleeper to be a solidly good starting pg if he's ever freed and winds up with playing time
01-03-2014 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
For comparison's sake, here's the list of PGs (or players listed as PGs) taken in our most recent dynasty draft:

# Pick #RoundTeamPlayerAgeTheDean's 1st-draft ranking
151NozeKyrie Irving216
281mburke05Chris Paul281
391mjw0586/wangpirateRussell Westbrook253
4121Ray HortonDerrick Rose2522
5131CPHoyaStephen Curry252
6151z32fanaticJohn Wall235
7251DatFireflyTony Parker3114
8301Franchise 60Mike Conley268
9342PlzBeALevelDeron Williams2917
10452hansterRicky Rubio2323
11492bowens/LurchySopranoTy Lawson2613
12502SackofNutsRajon Rondo2716
13512TomHimself/theblindsideKyle Lowry2710
14552SteelersDMW/NLSoldierDamian Lillard237
15653aejonesJrue Holiday2321
16683capone0George Hill2718
17723TronSpecialTrey Burke219
18733darOEric Bledsoe2411
19924aejonesKemba Walker2324
20954TheDean1Jeff Teague2519
211074i run badGoran Dragic2715
221215Victor CruzPatrick Beverley25 
231225i run badJarrett Jack30 
241255BobboFitosIsaiah Thomas2412
251385JumanjiBoardMario Chalmers27 
261395Nicholasp27Greivis Vasquez27 
271405CrunchyBlackMichael Carter-Williams224
281445CrunchyBlackSteve Nash39 
291465tarheeljks/digablesMo Williams31 
301475hansterBrandon Jennings24 
311495charder30CJ McCollum22 
321556fanerioJeremy Lin2525
331636darOReggie Jackson2320
341716TomHimself/theblindsideRaymond Felton29 
351766NozeDarren Collison26 
361796charder30Andre Miller37 
371867DatFireflyNate Robinson29 
382037mburke05Jameer Nelson31 
392158BobboFitosDevin Harris30 
402218CPHoyaRamon Sessions27 
412248fanerioPatty Mills25 
422368tarheeljks/digablesLuke Ridnour32 
432388Franchise 60Jerryd Bayless25 
44257loli run badKirk Hinrich33 
45264lolBobboFitosEric Maynor26 
I crushed that lil Zeke pick.
01-03-2014 , 02:00 PM
I know this has been done ad nauseam...

But I am considering doing another All-NBA all-time draft. Very similar to our very first one, but this time we all just know a lot more.
01-03-2014 , 02:08 PM
I mean, MCW's most obvious player comp is Rubio, and cherry picking the guys who went on to be AS/HOF level players as his comparison group is ridiculous.

A fuller (though not perfect) comparison group: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws
01-03-2014 , 02:15 PM
Sadly I think MCWim is very close to his ceiling already
01-03-2014 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDean1
i am almost certain that on average they progress more than other types.
I agree with this, but to an extent it's because they're the rawest coming in (though those rookies tend to still have high PERs due to huge usage; think Wall's PER was definitely > his on-court value his rookie year). otoh I want to say that lack of shooting limits their ultimate ceiling: I think Wall's improved a ton, but is beginning to come up against this. idk though, that might be narrativizing, I just really like players who can shoot and am v. skeptical of ones that can't. I'd much rather try to build a team, personally, around Kyrie than MCW, ainec.

Westbrook and Wall's superior FT shooting also seems like a relevant data point.
01-03-2014 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos

But I am considering doing another All-NBA all-time draft.
01-03-2014 , 02:26 PM
Further, that list was just PG types, no reason to limit it to guys with passing ability: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

Some guys who learned how to shoot, some who didn't. Eyeballing the list neither side seems predominant. I will say this, he's not a guy who shot well in college that has just struggled to adapt. He was a bad shooter who continues to be a bad shooter. He could improve and probably will to a degree but there's plenty of room to improve and still be below average let alone positive on this front.
01-03-2014 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos
lets simmer down w the "team is so great with him on the court" shall we?
was supposed to read team's offense, not team
01-03-2014 , 02:31 PM
I don't really think there's a lot of precedent for the plausibly megaelite shooters w/playmaking ability like Kyrie/Lillard/Curry (Kyrie slanted more towards the playmaking than shooting side, but still elite). imo the sky's the limit for those types of players.

Also think there's a gap in value based on the ball movement and offensive philosophy of the team they play for. MCW is almost definitely > Kyrie as an asset on a team that would be guaranteed to employ Mike Brown for the next decade. But for how Portland appears to be shaping up, Lillard >> MCW imo.

Last edited by Das Boot; 01-03-2014 at 02:42 PM.
01-03-2014 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartland
You know this draft is a joke when it's 19. Lebron James
01-03-2014 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ludacris
You know this draft is a joke when it's 19. Lebron James
It was done in 2011, but I agree with you, he should have been drafted higher at that time.
01-03-2014 , 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ludacris
You know this draft is a joke when it's 19. Lebron James
You mean #1 Allen Iverson didn't give it away?
01-03-2014 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf32
You mean #1 Allen Iverson didn't give it away?
I actually thought they took it pretty seriously after that bizarre moment, even Kevin McHale didn't do that badly for himself, with his green theme (he managed to pick up shaq).
01-03-2014 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethypooh21

Some guys who learned how to shoot, some who didn't. Eyeballing the list neither side seems predominant. I will say this, he's not a guy who shot well in college that has just struggled to adapt. He was a bad shooter who continues to be a bad shooter. He could improve and probably will to a degree but there's plenty of room to improve and still be below average let alone positive on this front.
i didn't cherrypick on purpose, had to go and threw together a list of the first few players who i could think of. i agree that guys who failed are important too, but rookies who start studding and then disappear are def outliers. like reke is like a 3 sigma outlier, for all we know he got addicted to meth after his rookie year. if nothing else playing for a dysfunctional organization hurt him a ton the same way the cavs are ****ing up kyrie this year.

i never was inclined to slurp rubio at all. he has the same strengths as mcw but his weaknesses are just so much more extreme. he is a pathetic rim finisher and that's not something that is readily improved as outside shot. his 2p% and TOV% are far worse than mcw's right meow, and overall mcw's superiority is glaring.

i don't anticipate that mcw will ever be a good shooter. but he should slowly uptick and he doesn't have to improve much to get his TS > 50. if he settles into the 51-53 range that's fine for somebody with his defense, playmaking, and ball protection. jason kidd had a 50.7% TS and is one of the best PG's of all time.

i do think one concern with mcw is that he seems overconfident in his sucky ass shot. like he's prob gonna be at his best as a 22 usage player rockin a 53 TS, but he might instead become a 29 usg player with a 49 TS which would be no bueno.
01-03-2014 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos
PSA: It's blizzarding in Boston, and has been snowing for like 28 hours straight.
72 and sunny in LA man.
01-03-2014 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos
I know this has been done ad nauseam...

But I am considering doing another All-NBA all-time draft. Very similar to our very first one, but this time we all just know a lot more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ludacris
You know this draft is a joke when it's 19. Lebron James
You can't take a young'un too early--they haven't paid their dues yet. I'm sure Sir Charles, in retrospect, would agree that his first pick was nuts, considering that AI was only ~36 years old at the time.

MJ gets an exemption because he's MJ, but excluding him, the first round should have included Wilt, George Mikan, and Kareem (the latter is too alive, but when he's scowling, he bears a passing resemblance to a skeleton).
01-03-2014 , 04:06 PM
Apropos of nothing, just wanted to point out how I was lambasted for suggesting Marco b was a better player than korver last year while he played for the bulls and now everybody is on his nuts after actually watching him play. You guys are hilarious.
01-03-2014 , 04:08 PM
Dean, he's "studding" in large part because he plays with bottom 3 collective talent. Somebody has to collect bulk stats (especially since they play faster than anyone in the league), but being much better than Darius Morris doesn't exactly qualify.

Re: Rubio, his TOv% is higher because he shoots less. Rubio has the ball in his hands more than MCW in fewer minutes, and turns the ball over at a less frequent rate - pass first guys usually have higher TOV% for just this reason.

I'm glad you acknowledge that the failures matter, but them you dismiss them by calling them 3-sigma outliers based on...what?
01-03-2014 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethypooh21
Dean, he's "studding" in large part because he plays with bottom 3 collective talent. Somebody has to collect bulk stats (especially since they play faster than anyone in the league), but being much better than Darius Morris doesn't exactly qualify.
Who's paying any attention to bulk stats? And why would playing with ****ty talent be a net help to MCW?
01-03-2014 , 04:18 PM
Is there any site that breaks down efficiency by

transition
semi-transition (i.e., defense back but not set)
half-court (i.e., defense set, offense running set play)

Eyetest telling me that MCW makes a lot of hay in category 2.
01-03-2014 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoTrollstoy
Apropos of nothing, just wanted to point out how I was lambasted for suggesting Marco b was a better player than korver last year while he played for the bulls and now everybody is on his nuts after actually watching him play. You guys are hilarious.
Korver still better than MB, even though the latter is running like God and the former is merely running like himself.

MB still quite good/underrated, tho.

Let's all pause for a moment and imagine Korver on San Antonio.
01-03-2014 , 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Let's all pause for a moment and imagine Korver on San Antonio.
Good god. Him instead of Green last year in the finals? He might have hit 80% on 3s.

      
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