that's interesting

now that i check though should point out that last yr klove had +5.4% on/off differential for orebs and 5.7% the yr before that, also the twolves have the best oreb differential in the league this yr

kbfc,

do you have any numbers you could share with us related to a situation along the lines of "player X has the ball, player X passes to player Y with Z left on the clock, player Y shoots within 1 second of Z, Y scores" for player X? who has the most of those kinds of passes? maybe you could post a list of just big men too?

thanks!

If you mean a timestamp of every pass, then no. But it seems like the basic assist stat covers that situation for the most part.

kbfc,

what do you think about some of the discussion today, esp pertaining to replacing K-love with pau gasol, the trash that is the Wolves supporting cast(with injuries), and where amare ranks among the best players in the game?

edit: i know you cant post about your personal stats, but it's always nice seeing you posting in general.

There was a thread on Football Outsiders maybe 5 years ago that I remember reading and really enjoying, both for the humor and the content. It was about a mythical "RoboPunter". RoboPunter could punt the ball out at the opposition's 1 yard line 100% of the time, regardless of field position or game situation. Is RoboPunter the MVP? Show your work! What implications does RoboPunter have regarding game strategy and other player values for both RoboPunter's team and his opponent? What changes if RoboPunter is only 80%? 50%?

That's what this discussion could be if it didn't keep getting derailed into rumors about magic secret numbers and analytical reputations.

When an evaluation method gives you Love as the best player in the nba(even if it is just due to variance or Fields>Amare, you should simply not trust the system(at least at first).

Previously held beliefs should not be dismissed because of new contradicting results or supposedly statistical evidence.

The impact of a star player on the results of a team in basketball is something that is well-known and has been clearly evidenced. I mean without going back to far, Dwayne Wade lead Miami to 47 wins last year with Beasley as his sidekick and a supporting cast that does not seem that much better

Love as the best player in the nba even for 30 games, even if it is just due to variance is a gigantic anomaly, given that his team is on pace to win 20 games.

For this reason alone, your first inclination should be to doubt the stats or at least your interpretation of those stats. You should not come into a thread claiming that Love has been the best player in the nba and wait for posters to come up with other arguments debunking this, but simply say eh I have got a system saying Kevin Love is the best player in the nba, could you help me find where I went wrong? Did I overvalue offensive rebounding? Are my defensive stats wrong? And you should welcome criticism that help you find where you went wrong, because that’s most likely the case. Only, at this end of this process, if no flaw has been found in your system, could you begin to say something as outlandish as Love has been the best player in the nba, but even then that would be an hypothesis that would require further empirical confirmation.

You basically have to constantly doubt your own findings, that is how rigorous people think and do research. Claiming something outlandish based on some disputable evidence, and regretting that “people are too stubborn in holding to previously held beliefs” when they don’t readily accept it is more the method of thinking of an homeopath than a nobel prize winner.

That’s said there’s little doubt that you would be a world class homeopath if you really put your mind to it.

in this case, you're actually strawmaning the strawman.

finally some real ****ing content in this tread.

their intro music is so tilting. And I just know Matty O picked it cuz he's equally as tilting.

Actually, the stats that suggest he's having a great season are quite public. IE. ORb%, Orb per 36, USG.

FH, you've been a massive troll throughout this discussion. Where is your civility? Must've left it somewhere in San Antonio.

In any event, people have disagreed with no supporting argument. Their disagreement stems from "I don't agree", but no stats behind it. that's why it's frustrating, because Assani and I present stats - they should speak for themselves.


Me too

Uh, I have yet to see 1? Links or reposts will suffice.

Exactly! Assani has very much shown his work

Yeah, people aren't making logical fallacies too often. We've been quite clear that Fields > Amare.


Yep. It all goes back to ya'll think Amare is actually good.

This

This, too

LOL. You presume quite a lot.

Mainly, LBJ had a weak start to the year. His first 10-12 games he wasn't hitting shots and was very turnover prone. Do people not realize this? Compare his year to last year - LBJ was better then. It's not so much KLove will drop off a cliff (although his 3pt shooting will a bit) but moreso that others will pass him (Ie LBJ)

lol

TBJ link was epic. Joe Johnson "I try to dump my girlfriend by valentine's day" LOL

That's pretty standard really

I must admit some skepticism over Kevin Love being anywhere near #1.

lol. you guys are pathetic. I am pretty sure he laughs pretty hard after these exchanges, rather then face palming.

Did anyone respond to Meb's big stat based post putting KLove, by all available metrics, certainly behind the big 4?

You're grouping Love in with Cp3, LBJ, Wade, and HGH. I dunno, that seems like he belongs in the DISCUSSION for MVP. No?

actually PER incorporates stls/blks.

This is an example of intellectual dishonesty; his ORtg is 119. Dwight is 106, CP3 125 (on lower usage), Wade 112, LBJ 113. So yes, his DRtg is worse, but ORtg better.

How does this make me fos?

Well, the argument that caused all this was that he was the best player in the association through 30 games, not in the MVP discussion.

This, too, is really intellectually dishonest. Here's why:

If you're referring to his on/off splits, 1yr unadjusted, he plays against starters. His teammates, who come on after him, play against 2nd units. The gap between he + 4 starters vs starters vs bench vs bench is much wider, to the tune yeah, it makes sense his on off to be poor.

Further, look at how the DRB% changes with him off the floor. This is normally pretty static, but the TWolves collect almost 5% fewer boards when he's not on the floor. THAT HAS DEFENSIVE VALUE!

omg loved the pic of the girl swooning over BRoy

I find this post intellectually dishonest because you don't mention that they rebound better offensively when he's not on the court and his offensive rebounding is where you guys claim a ton of his value comes from.

it's not a good sign for APM, when the one thing it's aimed to eliminate (dependence on who you're playing with/against) is brought up to the reason it's not valid.

lol this

Yeah, this is a good point. I don't know how to explain this. Maybe some Minnesota fan can.

We were talking about UNADJUSTED numbers, for the record.