This thread is definitely giving us way too many 40 degree days lately.

wat? thats exactly what i'm saying, if he wasn't overrated and wasn't a loser he'd be #2 of all time including every single position. how is that trolling/talking in circles? wtf?

These are some of my favorites. You say he is clutch, he says he sucks in Game 7s, you post game 7, he says haha you ignored game 1-6. In every other sense you post how he carries the team from 1-6 and that is a definition of clutch, and he says yea but clutch is only in game 7....

and yet he wasn't even clutch in game 7 as he choked in the final minute of the game and choked on a game winning type shot.

First part is excellent. The passing is super excellent.

When talking with my friends, I explain the reason Kobe(not saying anywhere here thinks he is good) is bad is because he doesn't understand game theory and balancing. Saying you can be the best at something, but if you do the same action so predictably, it can be stopped.

btw, I think some coaches aren't sending doubles to Kobe on purpose. I sincerely think someone like Pop probably wants Kobe to take the shot knowing it will be a stupid one, instead of a good double and making him pass it off to an open player. No evidence and not "really" saying it, but I wouldn't doubt it though

eh, i'm not saying that people do better when they are not aware of the situation, i'm saying there is such a thing as concentrating too hard. i feel that performing optimally, physically or mentally, requires some degree of detachment. idk that we disagree about that particular point tbh, but i disagree w/the implication that laughing is necessarily a sign of lack of focus; ;i would argue the opposite in fact. anyway, was he more focused when he was beating his chest? that's just another emotional reaction; it doesn't inherently make him more or less focused. we can spin anything, even no reaction at all, as an indication of a lack of focus but again i think the opposite. many people kind of lose themselves in high leverage situations b/c they know exactly what is on the line and it causes them to press. lots of players aim the ball instead of shooting when they get nervous and i'm told golfers can do something similar when they putt. overconcentration can result in trying to micromanage a process that works best when it flows naturally

But when you thought he was, you shifted automatically to game 1-6. And when game 1-6 is ever brought up otherwise, you shift to game 7. Just admit it, you argue exactly like this and its horrible and mostly trolling and shifting goalposts. No one is allowed to beat you in arguments, so you refuse to add value to the conversations. You argue your point until you have shifted every goalpost and have no more arguments then resort to posting .gifs and trolling.

So if LBJ were to win a ring this year would you say he's #2 including every single position and suddenly not an overrated loser [with your string of logic shown in this debate I don't see how you would have a choice]? Do you see how horrible flawed that is?

As for the bolded as someone who doesn't think LBJ is overrated I think this is arguable. Shaq, Hakeem, and Kareem would still all have an argument [I think I would def still take Shaq at this point] for being better than Lebron up until now even if he had won a ring already.

as ive mentioned many times, its very hard for me to reconcile "overrated loser with no wim" as 6-15 of all time and top 2 of his era. it seems we are too far apart on this distinction.

2 quick explanations are that you feel labron is much better in non clutch games than i do. or you feel that clutch games arent a huge factor in a players value or all time ranking.

incidentally, what sort of ballpark probability would give for labron to take over a clutch game and lead his team to a title? what effect would this have of your all time ranking if he performed as such.

wtf are u talking about, i told him to bring up the entire series since he brought up the entire 2nd series vs boston yet ignored the first. he posted misleading stats and i called him out on it.

any playoff series vs a great team has some clutch to it. any final few minutes in the playoffs vs a great team has even moar clutch to it. any game winning type shot in the playoffs vs a great team has even moar clutch to it than the statement before. any game winning type shot vs a great team in the playoffs in an elimination game (or especially a game 7) has even moar clutch to it than the statement before. how ***** hard is this to understand, blows my mind.

Man I'd take prime Shaq in a heartbeat still. He was just so sick

it depends how involved he was in winning the rang. u can't just sort by rangs or else kobe would be incredible in the clutch (hes not). if lbj played great in the playoffs and especially the clutch and they won a rang, then yes i would change my stance. if he got carried by wade and others and played average/poorly, then no i wouldn't.

if lbj continues to choke will u guys keep making excuses about how clutch doesn't exist or that we have no evidence or w/e? of course u will

anatta got his b-day today last year he got all f'ed up he woud say no drink but end up drunk but its been a year man done lost 50 lbs all smiles shouldnt gotten married man got that hearing tomorrow she aint gettin nothing anatta needs to maintain himself in the style to which he is accustomed actually anatta dont want **** just put in a big dippie do of kodiak nbatz his couch yoga a lil french just livin man livin but we aint giving away no money either beleedat

Yeah. Closest player to literally being unstoppable I have ever seen, and maybe ever will se.

It's just a fundamental difference I guess. I definitely don't see any great example of him "choking". Just check his playoff $tat$. Not having a good enough supporting cast to win an NBA title /= choking. Of course if Miami adds pieces like they should in the next couple of years and he's still not winning rings, maybe your argument starts to have some validity.

yeah lebron probably been okay enough so far that choker label isnt right but he's gotta get it done give him next year thats it.

happy bday anatta and congrats on losing 50lbs. just ~120 more to get rid of in court, lol.

u said it man

i tried reading some of it, its been brutal. the same arguments and nothing interesting pertaining to those arguments.

lol Nick Anderson. I forgot how demonstrative he was while throwing up those brick FTs. He even works in some chest thumping.

I'll take the lack of replies to mean that everyone agrees with this.

"Nobody gives a ****, about a 40 degree day."

-String

Or that it got lost in the 15,000 words written on the subject in the last 16 hours. Confession: I still haven't read it.

this

making good decisions in the clutch while obv a part of being clutch isn't the only thing, lbj has missed moar game winning/clutch shots in the playoffs than he should vs great teams. i'm just going off memory as there are no stats on these.

Holy subjective goalposts batman

Now that I've read it, my only comment is that you shift somewhat seamlessly between things "we know", i.e. have numbers for and things you think we know. Even setting aside the explanatory power of the numbers (which is a debate unto itself), you're kind of conflating the two, I'm not going to say intentionally, but in such a way that you are making a stronger conclusion than the actual data allows. Again, doesn't mean you're wrong, just means your proof isn't as strong as you seem to think it is.