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NBA Offseason Thread 2020 NBA Offseason Thread 2020

12-20-2020 , 11:54 AM
nah jazz are an 82 game team. they don't have players that can overpower you, so they basically need mitchell to go nuts on off the dribble 3s.
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-20-2020 , 12:09 PM
I think Bogey/Conley/Ingles have enough craftiness to get them through a couple rounds, but the window on them is closing due to age. Either way yeah it's better than the other option of trading him.
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12-20-2020 , 12:34 PM
Agree with you dood they are kinda stuck with him and to stay relevant which is what the jazz are about (the west's version of the Pacers) signing him was the best option. Roll with him and dmitch and surround them with shooters
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12-20-2020 , 04:37 PM
Today screen assists won.
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12-20-2020 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Kyle Kuzma has agreed to a three-year, $40M contract extension, including a player option on 2023-2024 season

decent gamble on him figuring out how to play basketball at some point i guess
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12-20-2020 , 06:55 PM
I like it for both sides and I think Kuzma kinda sucks.
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12-20-2020 , 09:27 PM
Celtics are not a playoff team with white boy Brad at HC
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12-20-2020 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228
I think they either had to either do this or trade him. Just looking at that number though, he'll be making 50M going into his age 33 season.

as you get older you don't get shorter!
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-20-2020 , 11:03 PM
Gobert>>Bam.
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12-20-2020 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228
I like it for both sides and I think Kuzma kinda sucks.

I also like it for both sides.

Kuzma gets some delicious monies locked up. Larry Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, etc.

Lakers bet on him at a decent price.

Win / Win

KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ!
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-20-2020 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exothermic
Gobert>>Bam.

Bam doesn’t get literally played off the court in some playoff matches.

So no.
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12-21-2020 , 12:34 AM
Bam had a better moment and series vs the Celtics than Gobert has ever had.

I'll admit that the advanced stats like Gobert during 82 game regular seasons.
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12-21-2020 , 12:46 AM
I think Utah is a team that should be trying to maximize long-term playoff equity rather than trying to maximize ring equity. Up to you if locking down Gobert does this.
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12-21-2020 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrapesofRath
This is an unpopular take but I’ve said in the past I think smart is better and more valuable than Jaylen brown who I think is somewhat overrated. Smart to me at times was their most important player during the Toronto series as an ex his next stage in development needs to be creating and operating out of the pick and roll. He also regressed back last year finishing at the rim after showing improvement

I don’t worry about smarts emotions because that stuff clearly doesn’t last in terms of affecting the locker room they all like him and respect him those things boil over fast. The Miami thing was water under the bridge the next day. Bigger issue to me though is yeah I’m higher on smart than most and even I know at some point you need a better player to be your true leader and franchise player to reach the top tier. I agree Tatum kinda has to become that within 2 years

Depth is an issue but this is also Stevens forte cranking out reg season minutes out of guys nobody thinks much of getting them to overachieve and surviving. Bigs in particular dime a dozen. I agree though the limitations on this roster are obvious. Offense when Tatum isn’t on the court is a big concern. This is also where Brad stevens for all his positives not having the most diverse of offensive playbook and sets matters. There’s gonna be too much Jaylen brown trying to create something out of nothing late in the clock and Tatum 28 foot step back 3s
One thing potentially valuable about Brown is that he seems to accept the idea of taking a backseat to Tatum and doesn't seem to complain about Tatum preventing him from taking the role he thinks he deserves. You can see it as a bad thing if you think that makes him too beta to be the best he can be, but I don't think so.

Right now, I think Boston's bench problem has to do with a lack of experience rather than a lack of talent. At least some of their young guys are going to be solid role players at their peak. We just don't know which ones yet and I think this is a roster that is designed to force-feed them minutes so that Ainge can decide who he needs to jettison and use the TPE to replace. I'm super-high on Grant Williams and I think people are going to be embarrassed about complaining that the Celtics should have preferred Thybulle. I think Romeo Langford has potential if he can ever get healthy. If they can hit on one of Nesmith or Pritchard as a solid rotation guy, that's the nucleus for a solid bench when you mix in a couple of veterans.
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12-21-2020 , 02:04 AM
Maybe Houston blowing it up makes Rudy more valuable? The Jazz's one win against Houston happened because they benched Rudy for the whole 4th quarter and rolled with Derrick Favors.
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12-21-2020 , 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTeeMe
Maybe Houston blowing it up makes Rudy more valuable? The Jazz's one win against Houston happened because they benched Rudy for the whole 4th quarter and rolled with Derrick Favors.
Jazz defense was good against the rockets, it's just that they shot 25% from deep
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12-21-2020 , 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
til giannis doesn't have an opt out until 2025 ugh


what a loser
Can pretty much guarantee he talked to ownership about a similar deal that Paul George had with the Thunder. If they don't win a title or lose in the finals the next ~2 years they will trade him to one of his preferred teams.

These kind of deals should be the norm. Gives the player the most money, allows them to look loyal and have a few more shots at a title, and lets the team get something in return for them.

You hear the Nate Duncans of the basketball world say that HE COULD GET THE SAME DEAL in the summer. That's true ~99% of the time but there are injury scenarios that could be catastrophic and also he now doesn't have to deal with annoying media questions all season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228
I like it for both sides and I think Kuzma kinda sucks.
I agree with this. At the very least it gives the Lakers some salary to use in a trade. Kuzma had to sign that. He needs the Lakers to maintain the little value he still has.

Last edited by jwd; 12-21-2020 at 09:22 AM.
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 11:12 AM
The gobert contract in a nutshell is what’s wrong with several things

1) the super max structure you just at some point have to make it for these small market teams that part of it doesn’t affect their cap to pay their guy this much

2) How teams like Utah are in lose lose situations in spots like this

3) how the super max structure is messed up too many players qualify for it and there isn’t enough distinction amongst them. Remember when I made this a while back

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=591642438

Look how much higher certain super max players are than others if LeBron and Rudy Gobert are making anywhere near the same stratosphere it highlights a problem in the system

4) Utah didn’t have that much of a choice but this move also really limits their ceiling and upward mobility whatever little they had of it. This contract also is not gonna age well it’ll start when Rudy is 29. As is he’s a top 20 player probably borderline worth this much money today. Long term 3 years down the road no way. As his athleticism declines he’s gonna start heading into net negative territory offensively pretty fast
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwd
Can pretty much guarantee he talked to ownership about a similar deal that Paul George had with the Thunder. If they don't win a title or lose in the finals the next ~2 years they will trade him to one of his preferred teams.

These kind of deals should be the norm. Gives the player the most money, allows them to look loyal and have a few more shots at a title, and lets the team get something in return for them.

You hear the Nate Duncans of the basketball world say that HE COULD GET THE SAME DEAL in the summer. That's true ~99% of the time but there are injury scenarios that could be catastrophic and also he now doesn't have to deal with annoying media questions all season.



I agree with this. At the very least it gives the Lakers some salary to use in a trade. Kuzma had to sign that. He needs the Lakers to maintain the little value he still has.
Part of it is the media will be obsessed with running Giannis out of town but yes I also think they basically have 2021 2022 and 2023 to win a ring or come super close. If it doesn’t happen by then I can easily see a trade happening this is also a very win now roster by how it’s set up. If they don’t win a ring the next 2-3 years it won’t end up happening at all

On the kuzma front it’s a little bit of an overpay but fine. One thing is lakers are loaded this year smart of kuzma to get paid before his volume stats suffer more. But at same time if he’s like 9th in the rotation in the playoffs this will affect his trade value
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12-21-2020 , 11:19 AM
For those interested btw

https://m.imgur.com/a/CZ9wj6t

Read Zach lowe
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrapesofRath
For those interested btw

https://m.imgur.com/a/CZ9wj6t

Read Zach lowe
zach lowe disrespecting the raptors?

NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrapesofRath
The gobert contract in a nutshell is what’s wrong with several things

1) the super max structure you just at some point have to make it for these small market teams that part of it doesn’t affect their cap to pay their guy this much

2) How teams like Utah are in lose lose situations in spots like this

3) how the super max structure is messed up too many players qualify for it and there isn’t enough distinction amongst them. Remember when I made this a while back

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=591642438

Look how much higher certain super max players are than others if LeBron and Rudy Gobert are making anywhere near the same stratosphere it highlights a problem in the system

4) Utah didn’t have that much of a choice but this move also really limits their ceiling and upward mobility whatever little they had of it. This contract also is not gonna age well it’ll start when Rudy is 29. As is he’s a top 20 player probably borderline worth this much money today. Long term 3 years down the road no way. As his athleticism declines he’s gonna start heading into net negative territory offensively pretty fast
I think this could easily be fixed with making the DPE only count towards 25% of your salary cap (rookie scale max), and then have those same stipulations carry with the player throughout that contract if he's traded. Does anyone lose in that situation? The owner has to spend more, but it's the tax that's more cumbersome than the cap for these small markets. Sure it gives them a competitive advantage, but it's still nothing compared to the geographical advantages of other teams.

In this scenario Rudy gets his 5/205(41m/yr) deal, but it only counts as a 5/163 (32m/yr) against the cap. Once his year is up he can be traded if needed, and the new team is responsible for the 41m/yr salary but only charged 32m/yr of their cap space. That makes it more palatable for teams to take on someone like Rudy down the line and raises his trade value whilst still giving him his money. Furthermore, it give Utah ~10M more a year in flexibility to build a better team around their DPE.
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrapesofRath
For those interested btw

https://m.imgur.com/a/CZ9wj6t

Read Zach lowe
Thanks for posting, I've been devouring season previews, and can't wait for the games to start!
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadood228
I think this could easily be fixed with making the DPE only count towards 25% of your salary cap (rookie scale max), and then have those same stipulations carry with the player throughout that contract if he's traded.
Don't think cheap owners want this as it gives the player/agent too much leverage. Also, the tax gives them an excuse to be cheap. With this it would be harder to justify to fans.

I still hope it passes but I think it hasn't because of cheap owners. They are never going into the tax anyway and they get a share of luxury tax money.
NBA Offseason Thread 2020 Quote
12-21-2020 , 02:05 PM
How would that be any cheaper than the DPE is currently though? It's the exact same amount owed to the player except he'll be easier to move.

The qualifications are the leverage imo.
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