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NBA Modern Era Single Season Draft Discussion NBA Modern Era Single Season Draft Discussion

08-06-2009 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin
i mean seriously, prz has put up 2 solid years these past years, especially this past one, where he played 23 mpg, was beastly on the glass, was an OK defender (17.5 PER against, but his boards help a lot. D was a lot worse with him off the court, so there's that at least), fouls a decent amount.

I mean, he's a nice asset in today's NBA as a 24mpg guy. He's a nobody in this thing. And I really like Prz.
I guess when we see:

Perkins
Muresan
Eaton
Tree
Bradley
Ratliff

All go flying off the board, Zoidberg feared he wouldn't get a defensive 5.

It's not like he's needs much D with Parish, Sid the Squid as 2 of his starting 5. I guess he's trying to protect some of his very good value wings that he just got in Walter Davis and Natt who are both pretty horrible defensively.

I kinda know why you think it's a horrible pick (the guys or guy who is available)......but whatever floats peoples boats. He's also really low usage which I guess is good on his team.
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08-06-2009 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
Everyone has a Starting 5, what's wrong with going over them?
Meh, I just sort of dislike heavy analysis before the draft is 80%+ done. Some guys are still drafting starters and some teams don't have sixth men yet. Also, I think it makes people lose interest in the discussion of picks since it makes everyone put on their Dr. Jack Ramsay analysis hat.
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08-06-2009 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isura
Sleepy was best avail PG imo.

Charder's team is pretty good and super fun to watch. IMAGINE IF HE HAD MAGIC THOUGH!!
wouldn't have artest then! Only pick i didn't like was AI2, SG is just so deep, but hes still decent value and gives me a solid defender/slasher. If i need offense down the stretch, i can always go to Houston.

I imagine in the last minute of close games i will go Offense/defense substitutions with.

Gilbert
Houston
Artest
Jamison
Divac
for offense and for defense go
Gilbert
AI2
Artest
Mcdyess
Ratliff
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08-06-2009 , 04:03 PM
Eh, I'll cut them off now then and use them at the end
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08-06-2009 , 04:04 PM
no do me! i have my rotation set, minus a pg getting 10 mins a game.
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08-06-2009 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
I guess when we see:

Perkins
Muresan
Eaton
Tree
Bradley
Ratliff

All go flying off the board, Zoidberg feared he wouldn't get a defensive 5.

It's not like he's needs much D with Parish, Sid the Squid as 2 of his starting 5. I guess he's trying to protect some of his very good value wings that he just got in Walter Davis and Natt who are both pretty horrible defensively.

I kinda know why you think it's a horrible pick (the guys or guy who is available)......but whatever floats peoples boats. He's also really low usage which I guess is good on his team.
Thing is Prz doesn't even rate that well defensively. Most of his defensive value comes on the boards.

Just pick someone who is actually valuable at this point and get a warm body later on.
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08-06-2009 , 04:06 PM
Meh, analysis is good, keep going imo
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08-06-2009 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isura
Sleepy was best avail PG imo.
Wrong and its not even close. There's still a few great PGs left. I won't be taking any of them because they're horrible fits for my team, but if we're talking pure overall best available PG left Sleepy was certainly not best available.
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08-06-2009 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
Considering I guess a ton of the defensive 5s are going, it's not all that bad, in the scheme of players left it's pretty bad. There are still defensive 5s, but they are similar to Joel e/c Joel is a really sick rebounder and shot blocker with foul issues. His per minute stats are better than some of the guys who went b4 him, and he is ultra low usage.

His averages for his career, including when he really sucked are:

11.2 Reb/36 and 2.7 Blocks/36.
Block % of 5.7.

If we include just the last 5 years.

Nearly 11.8 Reb/36 and 2.7 BP/36. And the last 2 years he's been 57+% from the field which is mainly on dunks. Per is 15 which isn't awful either for someone like him.
Yeah, but he can't play anywhere near 36 minutes. He fouls a lot in the real NBA, he won't be able to stay on the floor against the guys in this league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin
it's actually 3.6 at a .373 clip in '89, which was a LOT at the time (6th in the league in attempt and makes). The 3pt shot just wasn't as prevalent back then.

When you look at TOTALS, in the years he took a lot, he made a solid %. I think he's a decent 3pt threat in this thing.
Yeah and you get the players, not the stats. The rest of his stats say he isn't. The years you are talking about 89/90 aren't even the direct years before or after they took Sleepy. He's high variance, and that debate is why I didn't want him when I specifically needed 3 point shooting. Not saying he's a bad player at all, he's def awesome, just not at this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethypooh21
True. But nobody really shot a ton of threes then either.

Besides his values is as a very good offensive 3rd guard. Peak = 18/10 1.7 stls, over 60 ts%, 120 ortg, .384 3% on normal ~ 20% usg. Plus he's a guy who could legitimately take a game over. See Sleepy Floyd Game.
Yeah that game is nasty.
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08-06-2009 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charder30
pairing Bradley with G.M. seems wierd, i guess b/c neither can play a lot and cant play together. I assume Bradley will get 26mins a game or w/e and GM will get 22? No way you can play them together right?
It depends on the matchups. Obviously, against teams with quick, strong athletic 4s that can shoot, they won't play together, but I think there are quite a few 4s out there that got away with being pure post players in previous eras despite being relatively small that will get absolutely dominated trying to play against Shawn Bradley if I use a twin towers type lineup.

Examples of starting PFs I'd play both centers against:

Calvin Natt
Buck Williams
Dan Issel
Dan Roundfield
Otis Thorpe
Anthony Mason
Vin Baker
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08-06-2009 , 04:11 PM
Anthony Mason is a foot shooter and pretty quick, pretty sure hed rape bradley.
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08-06-2009 , 04:12 PM
Joel is going to play much less, the points are his rates are high and you want high rates out of guys off the bench. There are probably 5-10 guys who are definitely better than him overall at the 4/5 spot, but I guess Zoidberg prefered him....
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08-06-2009 , 04:21 PM
Round 7, Pick 216

Team DoB selects:




Tom Gugliotta, PF
(one of his prime years)


Tom Gugliotta's stat page

No time for a long writeup today. I am totally wiped out from band camp. (Let your jokes fly now. I've heard them all. ) Team DoB's frontcourt is going to become Team "what if". Googs couldn't stay healthy in his prime, but when he did play, he was quite good. He'll make a solid frontcourt rotation man for Team DoB.

Team DoB
Jason Kidd - PG
Dan Majerle - SG
Dominque Wilkins - SF
Tom Gugliotta - PF
Ralph Sampson - C

Michael Finley - SG/SF
Kevin Willis - PF/C
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08-06-2009 , 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
Thoughts on first 2 evaluations?
Enjoyed reading both of them. Keep them coming.
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08-06-2009 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
Eh, I'll cut them off now then and use them at the end
I didn't mean to come off like a jerk and I'm sure a lot of people like them so do what you feel like IMO. I think they are very good I just didn't think everyone's starting five was done but it looks like it is so gogo (and do my team IMO).

Also, Mason would waffle crush one of Bradley or My Giant.
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08-06-2009 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charder30
Anthony Mason is a foot shooter and pretty quick, pretty sure hed rape bradley.
He's not a scorer. Even in his peak season, he only averaged 13.6 points per 36 minutes. If you really want him going one-on-one off the dribble and taking shots away from CP3 and Bernard King though, be my guest. I'll be much happier to throw it into the post to Bradley on the other end where he can pretty much just hold the ball above his head and line up a 5 footer where Mason won't even be able to reach the ball.

When you have two players that get most of their value from rebounding, defense, and post scoring, believe me being a foot shorter is not an advantage.
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08-06-2009 , 04:23 PM
Like the Gugliotta pick BTW. He was the last really good big left IMO and was my contingency plan if Adams and Muresan were both picked in front of me.
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08-06-2009 , 04:25 PM
Didn't mean that he height was an advantage just that IIRC he was pretty quick and could face up bradley and rape him.
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08-06-2009 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charder30
Didn't mean that he height was an advantage just that IIRC he was pretty quick and could face up bradley and rape him.
I'm not saying that Mason wouldn't be able to score some points. I just think the matchup on the whole would be a huge net positive for my team. Bradley would totally negate him on the boards, and would probably get higher percentage shots on the offensive end than Mason would. Remember, even if Mason does get around Bradley, there's still going to be a 7'7" shot-blocker waiting for him at the basket. Bradley didn't score a lot of points against good NBA centers, but he can definitely post up a 6'6" guy to score some points.

The kind of PFs that could really abuse Bradley are guys like Dirk Nowitzki and Rashard Lewis who still have the height to play reasonable post defense, but score more points from the perimeter than they do in the post. Against those guys, I'll just play Bradley 28 minutes and Muresan 20 while letting Boozer/undrafted 4 to be taken later handle the star PFs on defense.
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08-06-2009 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos
pure shooting is nice, but it's worth noting that getting to the rim (close shots) and by extension shot selection is v important. like tony parker is a bad shooter but has excellent numbers since he shoots close to the basket v vv often. also you're selling the other stuff rondo brings to the table short (ie. rebounding and ball hawking)
Tony Parker is an above average shooter, who takes a lot of midrange shots. It is his success getting to the rim (high efficiency) combined with his competent midrange game (not high efficiency, but better than average, so it doesn't kill his overall numbers) that makes him a >50% shooter.

Rondo is one of, if not the, worst-shooting guards in this league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos
How are teams SUPPOSED to score??? I would love some explanation.
The same way as the real NBA, by finding and exploiting an advantage they have over the defense, such as targeting a small no-D SG. Then when the opponent adjusts, the offense adjusts to exploit whatever new hole opens up, and so on back-and-forth.
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08-06-2009 , 04:44 PM
I think Pryz is pretty bad spew...there are still some pretty sweet old guys out there, and I don't even think Pryz is the best current guy left. Gug is a good pick, but imo he's not the best PF left. There's one that is imo clearly better
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08-06-2009 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfc
The same way as the real NBA, by finding and exploiting an advantage they have over the defense, such as targeting a small no-D SG. Then when the opponent adjusts, the offense adjusts to exploit whatever new hole opens up, and so on back-and-forth.
Bobbo's team has takes the game theory approach to scoring. Keep up with the times imo.
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08-06-2009 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NozeCandy


Yeah and you get the players, not the stats.
sure, but you get their peak, and Sleepy's peak 3pt shooting is better than his career totals. That much is clear. And he's a v good player in general.

This same argument hurts Barros, btw.

Last edited by kidcolin; 08-06-2009 at 05:00 PM.
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08-06-2009 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe
Wrong and its not even close. There's still a few great PGs left. I won't be taking any of them because they're horrible fits for my team, but if we're talking pure overall best available PG left Sleepy was certainly not best available.
meh, maybe you're finding guys I'm not, or know something I don't, because I thought he was.
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08-06-2009 , 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charder30



no thoughts on houston as my backup wing to AI2 and Artest? How many better jump shooters have there been in the past 15 years, just saying!
I really liked Houston when he played. I think he's an awesome shooter/scorer, just don't count on him come crunch time
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