odom got less to's bc he handled the ball a ton less. royce was their pg on many possessions. he took the ball up the court. he crushes in ast% and ast/to ratio.

royce scored 17 per 40 on 6.5 buckets. odom scored 20 on 7.2. obv odom was a lot better at the line but royce got there more. cant imagine his ft% doesnt improve since im sure he never practiced them and he didnt even play ball for 2 yrs prior.

and obv obv obv royce faced far tougher competition.

anyway, heres the thing, u gotta watch this dude play. its unreal how he moves. hes hudge but has quickness, fluidity and ferocity. and he can dribble.

Royce was not PG as often as you think nYou jus watched him in the tourney.

eh i still think you're overrating him but i guess i see your point.

I hear Zeller has a 6'7 wingspan.

My early Big Board:

I assumed that everyone on the fence would enter the draft. I don't feel like commenting on each player but I'll discuss any of them individually.


Tier 1
1. Anthony Davis


Tier 2
2. MKG
3. Drummond


Tier 3
4. Cody Zeller
5. Bradley Beal
6. Thomas Robinson
7. Jared Sullinger


Tier 4
8. Kendall Marshall
9. Terrence Jones
10. Damian Lillard
11. James McAdoo


Tier 5
12. Harrison Barnes
13. Perry Jones
14. Jeremy Lamb
edit: forgot Tyler Zeller, put him here
15. Austin Rivers


Tier 6
16. Royce White
17. John Henson
18. Tony Wroten Jr.
19. Myers Leonard
21. Arnett Moultrie
22. Moe Harkless
23. Mason Plumlee
24. Quincy Miller
25. Patric Young
26. Terrence Ross
27. Fab Melo
28. Draymond Green
29. Jeff Taylor
30. Andrew Nicholson

no Tyler Zeller?

I predict Royce White will have a long, successful career of getting haters mad. I don't think he'll be a great nbaer tho

oh, just forgot about Tyler...put him in tier 5 somewhere

forgot Jae Crowder too, put him at #16 at the top of the bottom tier

I'd swap Marshall and Lillard

And then after that I'd swap Terrence Ross and Marshall and your rankings would look a lot better.

How can you have Crowder so much higher than Jeff Taylor?

And not that I'm particularly high on Quincy Miller, but I can't envision somebody taking Mason Plumlee over him. His upside is like a million trillion times higher.

Anyone here see any Pau in C. Zeller? Obviously he's not as tall, long, or skilled, but he appears to have really good feet, instincts and an extremely high comfort level with the ball -- as evidenced by his passing ability.

i have cody zeller lower and tyler higher. i also have lamb and harrison a tier before pj3, bc lol pj3.

i have cody lower but like where assani has tyler. pj3 needs to drop about 12 spots in those rankings because lol pj3

agree that rivers should be lower but eddie house is a horrible comp. i'll think of a better one when i get a chance but aorn i'm leaning in the direction of rich man's flip murray.

Austin Rivers gets way too much hate on 2p2, although its understandable considering that he plays for Duke....


1. He wasn't THAT inefficient of a scorer. He put up 15.5ppg/53.8% TS. Compare that to sophomores like Harrison Barnes(17.1/52.8%) or Perry Jones(13.5/53.9%).

2. I've read multiple draft sites state that "NBA GMs are higher on him than most think" whatever that means.

3. I assume that hes getting good advice from his father on whether or not he is ready to come out now. Moreover, his family obviously has the money to be able to wait.

4. He was the #2 ranked prospect coming in last year, so he definitely has a ton of talent.

fwiw (which is nothing), I like what I've seen from C Zeller. appears to be highly skilled, and imo is a high floor type of guy. trex tho

The NBA seems to suit Rivers' game much better than college as well.

I'm a Duke fan and didn't really get too into the NCAA discussion at TZ, but I'm pretty lukewarm on Rivers.

It's not even about efficiency- he can hit the 3 and his FT's will get better and he should improve his finishing near the rim as well. I just think he's not good enough to justify his role as an offensive ballstopper at the NBA level, and he doesn't add enough value in other areas to make him more enticing, although he at least won't be a Monta level sieve on D.

I just envision him becoming more of a 2nd unit leader than a guy who can fit in with too many 1st units. Maybe Jamal Crawford is a more apt comparison.

I don't think so at all- he was pretty much free to do whatever he wanted at Duke since he was the only one who could score off the dribble, and it certainly didn't hurt that he was surrounded by good spot up shooters to space the floor.

edit- I suppose the one angle in his favor is that he may be able to become a good enough shooter to become a solid scorer off the ball at the NBA level. He's pretty tricky to price out, there's a certain point in the first round where I take him just not sure where.

It has nothing to do with the opportunities he was afforded. The NBA is much more spread out, has defensive 3 seconds, etc. Iso-type slashers are generally just most suited to the NBA.

I think Jamal Crawford is a fine comparison. I don't disagree with much of your assessment. Jamal Crawford also went #8 overall in the draft, whereas most 2p2ers don't think Rivers belongs even as high as I have him ranked.

jamal crawford has a bit more size i think and for all of his faults he's found a way to get off his jump shot pretty effectively at this level. probably a fine comparison but my point is that what crawford "does" he is VERY good at-- an it's still not that valuable of a thing. if your'e less good at it it's not, not good, it turns slightly good, marginal, and slightly bad shots to marginal, slightly bad, and terrible shots (depending on when they get taken in the shotclock or w/e).

im not saying rivers can't become something other than that, but think about guys in that mold: crawford, monta? who else? JET? i guess JET has been able to play with some talent over the years and also is a bit better passer/decision maker.

This is pretty much where I'm at, except there's one sliver of hope that I see in Rivers where I may be totally off (and even not he's a big dog to hit it anyway)- KevMart that can play OK defense.

I know you're probably thinking "lol wut" because KevMart is a TS god and Rivers is not, but I felt like he was perpetually a **** hair away from being absolutely dominant this year. He is an incredible slasher that can get pretty much anywhere he wants to on the floor and hit 3's- that's a pretty dangerous combo. But he missed a TON of shots he should have hit whether it be off a great drive where he blows the bunny or just bricking throws- idk how far he'll grow out of this but for a freshman he has plenty of time to set this stuff straight. Part of it made me feel like "wow this guy is a fraud" but OTOH it doesn't seem that impossible to correct at his age.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...2-kevin-martin

Check their shot distributions between 2's/3's/FT's (TOV's too)- they are virtually identical aside from a few extra KM 3's, KevMart's just happened to go in more.

I wouldn't bet very much on this happening but it is a sort of interesting possible career path that you need to consider before totally writing off his draft stock imo.

what about Waiters?

More like wAIDSers amirite

austin is awful at passing out of the dribble.