pretty sure paxson was the last player to receive an all-nba nod

incorrect IIRC>

Get Epi to stake you imo. He thinks you're better then everyone but me on this forum so I think you have a solid chance of it!

Yeah but I need a way to make money

Oooooooooh sick burn

No doubt. I would have been there too if I didn't blow out my freakin knee two days before I was supposed to leave.

D

Just because something is unprovable doesn't mean it isn't true.

Anyway playing with better rebounders does have an effect. Look at KG, his rebounders are down because he went to a team with very good rebounders (Perkins, Pierce, Rondo). I don't plan on going through 20+ years of NBA history, but it should be clear to anyone who knows the game that the better rebounders u play with, the less rebounds a very good rebounder will get, and the worse rebounders u play with, the more rebounds a very good rebounder will get.

And of course I have selective memory, but it is def true that the Celtics didn't feed Al Jefferson nearly enough, and i'm pretty sure almost every Celtic fan would agree. There is no way to really prove this, but it doesn't mean its not true.

Like the Paxson pick, he was on my short list of BPA

Also, sorry I keep sleeping in and missing basketball :P

I wonder if were thinking of the same 2 guys.

D

Maybe it's significant but it's def not even close to as big as the gap between his wing defenders and mine.

McHale made 6 all-defensive first or 2nd teams (and would have made more had he not played on a broken foot), Rasheed and Chandler have both made 0. While I don't think all-defensive teams are the end all, I do think McHale is the best defender of the bunch. And Perkins isn't that much worse on defense than Chandler or Rasheed are either. Overall like I said i'd give him a slight edge but it's veryyyyyyyyyy close and could go either way.

Raja might not be in that camp but he is def really close and easily in the next tier. Deng is also very good as well.

I think it's very close and my wing+pg D is a pretty decent sized gap between his wing+pg D that it is easily enough to sway the very close bigman battle between us to my defense is better imo.


I think bigman defense (I disagree with post D as there is a lot more to bigman D than just post D), is the most important thing.

But wow 5 or 6? I can't name 5 or 6 things more important than wing D for winning basketball games. Wing d is very important, if your wings keep getting burnt by, it forces ur bigmen to have to play 2v1 all the time and either give up a lot of easy hoops or they get into foul trouble a lot. If you play off them, you give great scorers open jump shots which most can usually make at a high percentage.

+1 I think Tbach's team is very good and almost made my top 5

Prob not, but me and xorbie's combo of B. Diddy and Worthy will matchup well in the facial hair championship.

D

It's somewhat dishonest (I didn't look at the splits until Clark pointed this out) because you didn't mention that he had much higher TS numbers in both previous and later years and implied that he was signifcantly worse as a young player than he is now. When in reality his stats have been consistent throughout his career and that year was likely an abberation.

*** jim paxson.

The one thing I would add is that Martin is clearly the worst defender of this entire group. Antoine is clearly the worst offensive player, but he is a much better defender than Martin.

I think that the disparity in the wing D is being exaggerated by Epip, while the disparity in the post is being down-played.

people who like the benoit pick and hate dampier don't know what they are talking about. i mean you can def hate them both, but you cant like one here and not like the other.

so with that as a lead in. today i was with some nba "insiders" and with this draft as the catalyst i asked them to pick between two players as if they were owners and they would be getting either guy for his whole career. some are not surprising but some are very - i don't agree with a few of them too.

anyway i thought it would be interesting to share. so according to my "experts":

dampier>benoit - on this one they all laughed first and then answered - they thought it was pretty close though.

igoudala>melo

brand>boozer

paul>deron

isiah>paul

isiah>stockton

dumars and KJ - split vote

ok here is the WTF one. and they brought it up not me.

in a unanimous decision they told me that odom>marion.

the isiah love is ridiculous, and so is odom.

Why? Just take a look at their TS%, Benjamin's was very high in his immediate post-23 years at a medium usage, while Dampier didn't start shooting well until his later years when he became a low usage player. In his prime years, when he had a higher usage, he was a horrific shooter, I'm talking sub-Antoine Walker level bad for the first three years in this league before dramatically improving. Benoit is the opposite, he starts off well and then slips off, but his trough isn't nearly as low. Rebounding wise, it's the same deal. Honestly, it's like Dampier is two different players, he sucks until he is 27 or 28 and then suddenly becomes a much more efficient scorer and a much better rebounder.

pretty much. I agree with the rest.

Iguodala over Melo is just silly. I can't believe how underrated he is here.

Edit- unless you dislike 23 year olds who score 25+ ppg at a TS% above 55% along with grabbing 6 boards a game for his career and rarely miss time. Seriously, I think Melo is one of the best scorers I've ever seen and yet people constantly hate on him.

I love how BigCat hasn't even shown up yet.

Bobbo and anyone else in Vegas who wants to play basketball:


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...36#post4796036

The problem is that you seem to be claiming these "unprovable truths" about all your players or about anyone you're defending(like AJ here). And since I can't disprove or prove them it makes our debate pointless.

wrt Melo.. I want to see if he keeps up these kinds of rebounding #s. My biggest knock on him is that he's JUST a scorer. Can't distribute for ****, and was pretty mediocre on the glass, and was woeful on defense. This past season he started hitting the boards a bit harder and developed a respectful 3 ball. If that keeps up I'm much higher on him.

So how did you run into Isiah?

wtf does "insiders" mean? And LOL@ Isiah over Paul and especially Stockton.