I'll take a guy who started 60 games where half were good and half were ****ty over a guy who started 30 games that were ALL ****ty any day of the week.

I get that you think Eli being ****ty through 40 starts means Freeman will be awesome after 60. Except I thought Eli was awful? Cool?

Who brought up Eli? I've never thought Eli was a good QB once in my life. If Eli was Freeman's ceiling, I'd say go ahead and cut him. John Elway would be a better comparison of a QB with a lot of tools who had some really good seasons and some really bad seasons early in his career before ultimately pulling everything together to be very good.

Again, Elway is Freeman's ceiling. Not saying he's likely to be that good, but he's probably at least got a 5-10% chance to follow a similar career path. Ponder's ceiling is probably Alex Smith. There's no value whatsoever in trying to evaluate him further.

Since the merger, there have been 64 QBs who have started at least 30 games by age 25. Freeman ranks 34th out of 64 in ANY/A+. Ponder ranks 62nd out of 64. Freeman doesn't have to be great to be the better option here.

Lolllll okay

Josh Freeman is nothing close to the athlete Elway was wat. You realize he was a late first round pick without any college pedigree whose combine measurables weren't above average, right?

Freeman ran a MUCH slower 40 time than Ben Roethlisberger, for example. Like he measures out a bit better than Joe Flacco. You said John Elway, what the **** are you drinking? Josh Freeman is not whoever you have mistaken him for - you seem to think he's Cam Newton.

He's about to be 26, he's started 60 games, his measurables are below average. How does "he was good at 22" have anything to do with anything? I thought he was an elite prospect at that time as well. Then, you know, HE STARTED LIKE 40 MORE GAMES AND FAILED TO IMPROVE AT ALL.

Neither of them are in need of further evaluation. I said Ponder because he's the superior athlete and has less starting experience. Obv I don't think Ponder is drawing particularly well to become good at football. Almost none. And I think Freeman has more career backup type equity given he's been not-completely-terrible before. His ceiling is not John Elway, his ceiling is Kerry Collins.

im honestly baffled that people continue to engage him

He was drafted 17th as one of the youngest QBs in the history of the draft. I don't think you can hold that against him.


WTF are you talking about? Freeman's a pocket passer, not a runner. Everyone knows that. Do you think that's what I meant with the Elway comparison? I'm just saying he's a guy with a nice arm and a tendency to force throws that can look really good for stretches and then really bad for stretches.


You need to evaluate the whole body of work. He played well at 22 and he played very well most of last year. It's kind of like Rivers a little bit. Everyone was writing him off after one bad season last year, and then all of a sudden variance swings the other way a little bit and he's awesome. I never try to evaluate QBs on one season only when a larger sample is available.

IGGGGGYYYYY

Tell the truth is tonight the first time you have ever seen Freemsn play a game?

I think you're maybe thinking I'm a little higher on Freeman than I am. I'm not saying he's good. I'm just saying he still has a chance to be a good QB. That he has some equity which puts him ahead of Ponder who's one of the worst QBs of all-time and is drawing 100% stone dead.

I really liked Ponder in college and thought he was going to be an above-average / fringe Pro Bowl NFL starter.

I agree Freeman has the most upside of the Vikings QBs but this was a bad decision. He is a slow learner and was obviously not in condition to play a full NFL game, clearly seen by the sweating, huffing/puffing, and that's why you don't put him in here because that's how guys get hurt. Not just Freeman but there were so many slant targets in traffic that were extremely dangerous.



Easily take QB A but you give him a shot when he has the strength/conditioning to play and when he can communicate to his offense.

Agree that Freeman should've played ASAP because they'll have to trot him out there next year, but there were clear signs that last night was not possible and those are signs seen in practice.

IIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGYYYYYYYYYYYTY

5-10% chance to follow a career path similar to Elway's? Ceiling of Elway?

Oh my god.

SortBy4kYardSeasonsIMO

Freeman has less than a 5% chance of being as good of a front office guy as Elway, a 5-10% chance at being as good at football as Elway was at baseball, and a 5-10% chance of making as much money as Elway did. However, he has 0% chance of being as good of a QB as Elway.

not sure what you're talking about

look at this illustrious list

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...aft_pos_is_p=Y

Freeman so much younger than everyone else on the list. Must be better than the rest.

don't want to legitimize this debate, but Ponder 2012 was equal to Freeman 2012 by WPA and EPA. Freeman 2011 as bad as Ponder's rookie year, Freeman 2013 worse than Ponder's ever done. I mean, Ponder's bad, but he's like "26th-best QB" bad, not Freeman's current sub-sub-replacement-level performance. Throwing him in is whatever, I think I would have pulled him at least by midway through the third quarter though.

But does Ponder have a ceiling of Elway?

I'm thinking more Steve Young

Sam Ponder obviously squashes the Freeman>Ponder hypothesis

Yup. Gruden touched on this last night. Probably the dumbest thimg ive seen in a long time. The coaches in this national football league are awful. All of them.

You don't watch much football do you?