Not to mention, Woodson will also come off the corner and put pressure on the QB. Have yet to see how much Harris' injury affects this side of his game.

asomugha did this last yr and he was praised for it too, been there done that.

what happened to the "he doesn't shadow #1 wr's all game' argument that was brought up when I used stats from FO to try and show Revis was better? Now that people have seen that Revis does in fact line up with the #1 at all times, Asomugha did it last year?

Iggy,
Profootballfocus overall grades don't mean anything. They are people grading the games based on TV footage, which has problems already as TNM illustrated. Additionally even if they had tons of gamefilm it can be tough to know who is supposed to be covering who. Miles Austin had a 50 yard TD catch vs. Asomugha last week because Asomugha was expecting a safety over the top, it's possible PFF would credit him with some blame. Adding the stats makes no sense because they don't attempt to scale each area for what is more valuable. Which is why the really overrate guys who are good at marginal skills such as run defense for CBs. There are also huge sample size issues like there are in other football stats. Asomugha has had an absurdly low amount of targets the past couple years.
In 2008 he was thrown at 30 times in 975 snaps. In comparison Winfield/Webster/Revis were thrown at 81/67/84 times in a similar amount of snaps. If we assume there assignments had relatively similar difficulties it looks pretty clear that Asomugha is elite despite not having the counting stats of other guys.

This year Asomugha has been thrown at 1/3rd of the time as guys like Champ Bailey and Charles Woodson and I'm not cherry picking, pick any other elite CB and they haven't been thrown to nearly as much. Asomugha doesn't have good stats on PFF because no one is throwing to him.

Debo,
You can't argue Asomugha gets bailed out by having ****ty corners, which isn't really true, while ignoring that NYJ's blitzing helps Revis a lot.

OK, I wasn't considering/discussing NA at all when posting those stats, so not sure what your point is...I'm aware of how good Asomugha is, to me him and Revis are probably the current 1-A and 1-B

This is way off. Charles Woodson is one of only 2 CBs with a grade over 5 for run defense and no one has a run defense grade below -5. Meanwhile, there are 15 CBs with a grade over 5 for pass coverage and 17 below -5. Revis leads with a grade of 14.8. The grades are obviously scaled based on their overall impact.


It's true that Asomugha has gotten thrown at less than any of the other top guys, and I think profootballfocus probably underrates just covering your guy and not getting thrown at, but he's given up so many catches this year when he does get thrown at that you have to take some of that credit away. Would you rather have Revis who gets thrown at 65 times but has 11 pass deflections and only allows opposing QBs to go 28/65 for 310 against him or Asomugha who only gets thrown at 23 times, but when he does get thrown at, only deflects one pass and allows opposing QBs to go 19/23 for 230?

Just looking at the names of the tops of the respective lists, I think that profootballfocus's system is better than just using fewest targets to determine who's best.

Top CBs according to PFF:
1. Charles Woodson
2. Darrelle Revis
3. Antoine Winfield
4. Champ Bailey
5. Jabari Greer

Fewest targets (minimum 75% snaps played)
1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Carlos Rogers
3. Asante Samuel
4. Brandon McDonald
5. DeAngelo Hall

lol look it up clown, he did the exact same thing last yr. MOSS, Johnson, Marshall twice, VJAX twice, & Steve Smith.

Re: scaling
I am not saying targets are objectively a better way to measure people, but Asomugha is head and shoulders better than everyone else on that list. He is a clear outliers that PFF fails to measure accurately because they don't properly account for the fact people intentionally don't throw at him.

CB (Snaps/TA)
Asomugha ( 698/23)
Rogers (587/39)
Samuel (621/42)
McDonald (645/45)
Hall (628/46)

Last year Asomugha was thrown to at a similar rate and had receivers did much worse versus him. I tend to think it's more likely he has ran bad and 23 attempts this year then suddenly forgetting how to play the ball or having Qbs not throw to his side even when guys are open.

Antoine Winfield would be well over 5 in run defense if he didn't get injured.

It's nearly impossible to tell if a CB was reducing throws to his assigned receiver because

a) He was legitimately covering the receiver well
or
b) He wasn't covering him well, and the QB decided to throw to someone else. This could be because another receiver was much more open, or because the QB simply didn't see him.

Those stats also don't take into account the times that a QB was sacked because all of his receivers were covered and he had to hold onto the ball too long.

NA makes the most money -> he's the best
/thread

godd i knew this was gonna happen

charles woodsons run defense is rated great this year, right? so he must be a great run defender right? last year pff rated him as -5.8. he might actually be a very good run defender i wouldnt know, but the point is you cant take those grades very seriously, in the end they are again just the product of someone elses opinion

lol, earlier in the thraed when I brought up stats and how Revis played the #1 every time, I was mocked because the stats were inflated cause mostly everyone else doesn't do what the Jets do. But now that other people are saying it, NA all of a sudden did it too?

And I'll look it up

First game: Eddie Royal (Marshall suspended) 9/146/1
Lee Evans: 4/65
VJax: 3/52
Moore: 7/97
White: 5/54
Marshall: 4/84
VJax a second time: 5/148/1
Moss: 5/67/2
Bryant: 3/77

So if what you're saying is true, that he did infact play man to man with the #1 receiver for the whole game basically, no matter where the #1 lined up, those were his states against some receivers. Sure, you can add Steve Smith (CAR...1/9) but Revis just did that 2 weeks ago (1/6)

And I like how you call me clown, and say he shut Marshall down twice, but he only played him once...maybe you should watch the games and remember things rather then not

EM got owned hard

PFF rates dominique rodgers cromartie as #7 overall even with a -2.5 run rating

SUPERSTAR

Debo,
Asomugha doesn't shadow the number 1 receiver so a lot of times guys will torch the #2 while Asomugha shuts them down. Even with Marshall/Colston injured Royal and Lance Moore weren't the number 1s and Asomugha wasn't coving them.

If you think Lance Moore torched Asomugha you must have been really embarrassed when Welkah torched Revis a couple weeks a go.

Ok, and I understand that. What I was saying there was because EM was talking about how Asomugha did the SAME thing Revis is doing this year, constantly shadowing the #1 receiver, no matter where he lined up. So I put up the stats from the #1's when the game was played, to show him that what he was saying was true, that NA was infact shadowing, then he didn't do a good job.

Like I said above, the Jets might be the only team in the league that have their best CB shadow the #1 no matter where he is on the field. That fact alone, with the stats these receivers are producing, are awesome.

revis obviously hasnt shadowed the #1 on EVERY single play, but most of them ya

asomugha was challenged 27 times last yr and they completed 8 completions on him, 8.

Randy Moss 3 rec, 40 yards
Tony Gonzalez 2 rec, 34 yards

those are the only two receivers that caught more than 1 completion on him the entire season.

in 2007 he was challenged 31 times and only 10 completions for that entire season.

lol at bringing those numbers when teams move their players around. you do know players get tired and have to be taken out for a few plays right?

like i've said before ITT debo, there is nothing wrong with revis being the second best CB in the NFL.

LOL. Now you are simply contradicting yourself.

Either Asomugha played a certain side to account for zone defense and all that, or shadowed the #1's at all time. You can't have it both ways.

Also, explain how he has let up 19 catches in 23 attempts this year according to PFF? Any excuse for that?

are we looking at the same website? because it shows revis being TA 68 times and 28 completions on him, 300 yards allowed and 2 TD allowed. any excuse for that?

a 43% completion rate...while Asomugha is sitting at a nice 86% rate


We aren't going to see a Champ season anytime soon, if at all ever. For being targeted 68 times and not even allowing half of those to be completed...along with 3 INT on the season and 11 PD, with an average QB rating of 55.8 against him (lol qb rating) vs Asomugha who is 19/23 with 230 yards, 1 TD given up, 1 INT, 1 PD, and an 104.7 QB rating against him

basically triple the amount of targets, but only 9 more completions. Include more INTs, and 10 more pass deflections

lol counting stats

Given that teams are completing 86% of passes vs. Asomugha you would think they would challenge him more.

Maybe they are being real selective when they pass his way. IDK!