for me it requires being in the top few at your position. this however, includes more than 11 positions since you have to include different formations like wingers or inside RM/LMs and CAM, CM, DM etc. probably adds up to about 50 players or so.

well then raz and I are talking about two completely different things. Regardless what is your basis for saying they have world class skills? How do you know they do?

Since no one else chimmed in yet, I guess I will. Obviously I don't have a problem with it at all. However, a distinction here is that (I believe) MLS has stated that they wanted nasty tackles removed from the league and they have an albeit brief track record of going beyond the standard red card suspension for certain actions. Ricardo Clark v Ruiz comes to mind immediately. I don't know enough about the actual recent incidents, however its a shame for the league to lose three exciting players to season ending injuries.

i'm world class

If he breaks out in England, will he be named "the Duke of Hazard?"

I don't know about this. Insn't it rather, once you prove you are world class, that you are actually world class?

If I say I can golf in the 60's, don't I actually have to do it before I can claim it? I am sure that once I shoot in the 60's someone may opine, "well, I always thought he was good enough to shoot in the 60's, therefore, he was shooting in the 60's before he shot in the 60's."

Doesn't make sense to me since "world class" is based on status, not potential.

For me it come down to a player being able to consistently put in good performances. A lot of players "on their day" can be world beater but to do it week in week out puts you in that elite group.

So another one added to the you literally cannot be world class until you play in a big league camp?

Its more like someone shooting in the 60s round his local course, doing it every few months or so round a local championship course from the back sticks also. However people wouldn't consider him a world class golfer until he did it in tour events.

Modric was actually shooting in the 60's, he didn't just say it.

Yeah, I think the bolded is how I would look at it. A trained eye can determine whether someone has the potential to be world class before it is proven in world class competition, but until that happens, it is just a guess.

I suppose to add to the golf example, when you see that guy shooting 60's at the muni, you would say, "well, can you do that with the big boys?" Stepping up in competition adds a lot of new variables - tougher courses, tougher competition, mental aspect, crowds, financial pressure ... the whole thing.

There are many golfers that tear muni's apart but they don't have the whole package for the big time. That happens often in other sports, including football.

*** I see your point about Modric (and also about Suarez): Yeah, personally, I think they did meet that mark in their respective leagues prior to joining the EPL because they also displayed their abilities on the international stage. Indeed, their respective leagues are not top 4 leagues, but they are close enough that when you evaluate them in international play, you can make a fair statement that they meet the mark of being world class. I do think you are right there. Modric did shoot some 60's (on a sponsor exemption ).

But what if that same golfer did it at Augusta under tour course conditions but not in the masters etc?

Well, at this point, we have to change the example. In golf, there are two major tours.

Obviously, a top, European Tour golfer (who for some reason does not play the masters) can prove he's world class without playing Augusta.

A top Golfer from the Nike tour would have to show much more. Not only would he have to dominate his tour, but he'd probably have to show something in other formats like Ryder Cup, or on the PGA or EPT.

Under your example, the issue would be to what extent can you be sure that you have been able to replicate the conditions of playing in the Masters? Just playing the course in a lesser event is not going to let us know enough.

this is a really horrible analog. football is a lot more about how you are compared to others. in golf, if you go and shoot 60 on a tough course it doesn't matter if you were playing with tiger woods or a hobo (bebe perhaps?), the accomplishment is the same essentially.

in your analogy it is not at all like him saying he could do it but not actually having done it. it would be like him doing it, but not in a major event.

You don't understand the analogy. My example right here is only to show an example of an accomlishment-based status. In such cases, until you actually do it, you can only claim you have the potential to do it. It has nothing to do with comparing that accomplishment to anything else.

That City thing is class... Reminds me of the Fan Up campaign by the Miami Heat.

Arsenal vs City for third at the moment. Means more to City obviously (seeding and the like) but guaranteed group stage does mean a lot, because obviously drawing the weakest team in the competition with the second leg at home (Spurs vs Young Boys) isnt going to happen all the time.

Haven't checked all the leagues but teams such as Sevilla, Lyon, Bayern can be drawn by City but not by Arsenal.

I watched Modric in Bosnia in 2003. Was playing for Mostar. He was only 17/18 but already the easy best player in the league ( he was named B&H POTY iirc). Guy was absolute amazing. He did played CM loads during these times. He also played on the right side, second striker, left side, defensive midfielder. Most versatile player I have ever seen tbh. Continued to watch him when I went to Croatia and then Australia. I just knew this guy was going to be big since I saw him. TBH, this Croatia team has underperformed with the talent they have.

lol@you thinking it's supposed to be serious

the world class discussion sucks

Paging fatshaft.

And back, been away too long to bother going through the thread but congrats to United, a deserved title and hopefully we will put up a better fight next season.

I'm hoping to see a few youngsters get some minutes in these last two games.

Define sucks?

Kenny Dalglish officially appointed as new Liverpool Manager.

Done a good job but I still feel Liverpool will struggle to get top 4 next year. At least the fans will be more sympathetic during a bad run.

all they need to do now is coax ian rush out of retirement and they can start to properly pretend they're title contenders again!

I am looking forward to seeing who the new scapegoat will be.

Kenny Dalglish being at the helm actually makes me despise Liverpool less, top bloke.

Also, Liverpool are 17/2 to win the Premiership next year. For those of you who don't understand betting, this means if you put £20 on Liverpool to win next year you will

If they avoid the Europa League I think they'll be reasonably well placed for a shot at the top four, they seem to have a few quid to spend.