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12-06-2007 , 04:39 PM

#176

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

well, I have a few requirements.
1) I would hate to spoil the greatest regular season in all of sports.
2) I would hate to remove the bowl system and the idea that there is more than one winner in college football (especially with 119 teams).

Begging the two biggest questions out there!

You've totally and arbitrarily ruled out the possibility that weakening the regular season might make for an EVEN MORE EXCITING postseason, and you've taken the awesomeness of bowls as an axiom without any justification whatsoever.

Further, you're unjustifiably assuming a false dichotomy. There is no reason that there can only be ONE form of postseason play. Bowl game purists will still be allowed to buy tickets to the weedeater bowl with all of its "pageantry and tradition" after the playoff regime is instituted.

Quote:

3) I would like to encourage more interesting non-conference season games. Who didn't enjoy Texas-Ohio State? Why punish a SC team that schedules Arkansas, Nebraska, and Notre Dame? That behavior should be encouraged.

Obviously, a playoff system would create LOTS of "interesting non-conference games". Since you've already stated that the regular season IS a "playoff" of sorts, for you to draw a distinction here between season games and post-season games seems arbitrary.

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1st round games are the Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, and Orange

Rewarding the thugs that have ruined college football for so many years?

This would be like the government repealing prohibition but awarding a distribution monopoly to Al Capone based on "tradition".

Also note that this gives a huge advantage to SEC and (some) Pac10 teams since they're going to get a disproportionate amount of "home" games in the post sesason.

1st and 2nd round games ON CAMPUS gives MORE meaning to the regular season, which is a stated goal of yours. Makes seeding EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.

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---only way to get the BCS bowl groups to agree to cede some control...gotta give them a carrot

I don't buy this argument. If the NCAA just said "we're doing a playoff, screw you guys" what recourse to the bowls acutally have? They only have the power they have now because the NCAA left a post season vacuum. Don't let them hold you hostage with an imaginary gun.

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Allowing the Rose, Fiesta, Orange, and Sugar to be rotating hosts appeases the bowl committees and sponsors whose money makes the whole thing run.

Please. That money isn't going to magically disappear.

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I think the real test is to how in demand the tickets remain with one week travel times for big alums. No matter what, everyone gets the big trip to the Jan 1-2 bowl. Honestly, there are never enough tickets for the big schools for each bowl. I see little problem with Ohio State, Florida, or USC filling the stadium for multiple games though it might not be the same fans at each game. It will be tougher for those without a football tradition and smaller alumi bases like the 2006 Wake Forest or Louisville to fill multiple games, but I think that is a secondary concern.

Having round 1 and 2 on campus solves that problem.

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Am I off my rocker? Or, would this appease the gripes from most corners? Or, am I off my rocker and this still is a viable 'solution'?

Overall this is a pretty good plan. I'm a bit aggressive in my response because you've been on a crazy streak of self-righteousness the last couple of days. The biggest problems with this plan are with the dogmatic reverence for bowl games.

**** bowls.

Bump for MT2R

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12-06-2007 , 04:40 PM

#177

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

I'm a small conference hater

well, not really, I watch alot of mid-major football

it's just that they should really have their own title for that level
they aren't at BCS level

but, they collect more money and more exposure for pretending to be at the same level

Yes, I was about to suggest that you just start calling anyone outside of the BCS Division 1-A.5 or something. Apartheid forever!

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12-06-2007 , 04:41 PM

#178

MyTurn2Raise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lastchance

According to your system, MT2R, wouldn't Hawaii be +x wins, and therefore be deserving of the National title game, when we all know they're not?

Also, it's fairly obvious CFB is a pretty big crapshoot (a huge part of this is due to injuries), but I mean, LSU squeaked out at least one or two wins that could have easily gone the other way, or they could be a clear 1 right now. I mean, it's not like if you play this season out ten times, 1 and 2 are going to be the same even 5 out of the 10 times (assuming same injuries).

I think this is correct.

Hawai'i thing

my analysis is just one tool of many that should be used

yes, the season is a crapshoot. Yes, it would be amazing for the same one and two to come out 5 out of 10 times. The problem is that when you add in a playoffs, you essentially negate the beauty that is the regular season crapshoot.

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12-06-2007 , 04:43 PM

#179

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

yeah...I like the old way, but I should just give up arguing that and make sure the playoffs end up right

there is a problem with the +1 game transition right now

it will cause for 2 less BCS teams

the title addition allowed access for 10 teams... going to be tough to part with that

Why? You'll have fewer "sub-BCS quality" teams in the BCS. Like Hawaii. Or, say, Illinois. That seems like it would be right up your elitist alley.

Besides, I'm sure the BCS geniuses will be able to figure out how to have a +1 AND keep 10 teams. It's not rocket science.

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12-06-2007 , 04:46 PM

#180

MyTurn2Raise

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I read your complaints pvn

We obviously disagree

you hate the bowls for some reason

and then you don't deal with the reality of their power

and the money would disappear as the lower level bowls disappear

I mean, compare to bball. The schools get a much smaller proportion of the revenue.

I pretty much did not reply to your criticisms because you think the bowl system has hurt college football. I strongly disagree with that starting point.

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12-06-2007 , 04:47 PM

#181

Mike Cuneo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

this year is not chaos... pretty clear #1 and #2

this is my favorite part.

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12-06-2007 , 04:47 PM

#182

MyTurn2Raise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

not elitest at all, which is part of the reason I don't want a playoff

playoffs will entrench traditional powers

Quote

12-06-2007 , 04:48 PM

#183

MyTurn2Raise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cuneo

this is my favorite part.

mine too

we have a sport that has LSU and tOSU playing for #1, cannot think of a playoff that would have a better result

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12-06-2007 , 04:49 PM

#184

MyTurn2Raise

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year after year, NCAAF ends up with two great teams playing for #1, yet some still suggest the system doesn't work????

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12-06-2007 , 04:49 PM

#185

Mike Cuneo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

Utah.

Hawaii.

[/QUOTE]

boise st

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12-06-2007 , 04:50 PM

#186

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

yes, the season is a crapshoot. Yes, it would be amazing for the same one and two to come out 5 out of 10 times. The problem is that when you add in a playoffs, you essentially negate the beauty that is the regular season crapshoot.

LOL. What a joke. So you don't have any argument other than arbitrary lines?

Games before December 10th = beautiful

Games after that = ugly.

But we want SOME "ugly" games, just one per team. Then it's not ugly, it's awesome.

Get real.

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12-06-2007 , 04:51 PM

#187

Mike Cuneo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

year after year, NCAAF ends up with two great teams playing for #1, yet some still suggest the system doesn't work????

alright this year's super bowl will be NE vs Dallas-2 great teamz gogogogogo!

system works imo

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12-06-2007 , 04:53 PM

#188

Mike Cuneo

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seriously im starting to think this is the biggest, best level of all time (this thread, not the actual BCS)

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12-06-2007 , 04:53 PM

#189

MyTurn2Raise

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that would be awesome

like MLB when it was just NL v AL

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12-06-2007 , 04:54 PM

#190

Mike Cuneo

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MT2R, please respond directly to this list of teams that you claim control their own destiny.

Auburn
Utah
Boise State
Hawaii

You said there was only one exception, please explain the other 3

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12-06-2007 , 04:54 PM

#191

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

It hurts smaller schools. THe BCS is a way for the "bigger" conferences to keep a disproportionate share of the money by excluding smaller conferences from the big money games.

Hey, with scholarship limits, they had to come up with SOMETHING to keep the outsiders in their place. So far it seems to be working.

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12-06-2007 , 04:55 PM

#192

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

not elitest at all, which is part of the reason I don't want a playoff

playoffs will entrench traditional powers

LOL.

With a playoff, Utah, Hawaii, Bosie State have a shot. With the BCS, they clearly DO NOT.

Now, which system entrenches traditional powers?

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12-06-2007 , 04:55 PM

#193

MyTurn2Raise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cuneo

seriously im starting to think this is the biggest, best level of all time (this thread, not the actual BCS)

because you cannot grasp that the playoffs only benefit teams that haven't shown themselves to be one of the best two teams after 14 weeks

it's a sanctuary for loser crybabies

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12-06-2007 , 04:57 PM

#194

MyTurn2Raise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

if you look at the Big schools and their revenue, they actually keep too small a share of the overall money

look at regular season verse playoffs
The big schools have given the smaller conferences a far larger share than the revenue they produce throughout the season

playoffs would be just like NCAAB, where small schools leech of the exposure and revenute big schools bring

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12-06-2007 , 04:58 PM

#195

MyTurn2Raise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cuneo

MT2R, please respond directly to this list of teams that you claim control their own destiny.

Auburn
Utah
Boise State
Hawaii

You said there was only one exception, please explain the other 3

the other 3????

my god, it's debatable if they even are top10 teams

don't neglect that those teams do control scheduling and avoided making their resume strong enough

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12-06-2007 , 04:58 PM

#196

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

mine too

we have a sport that has LSU and tOSU playing for #1, cannot think of a playoff that would have a better result

Again, you're just arbitrarily declaring that the "best" (by whatever measure) teams at point X in the season should play for the championship.

All a playoff does is move the arbitrary point X back a few weeks, adding MORE GAMES (which you say are important for determining who is the most deserving). If you think a playoff is bad for determining who is the most deserving, how are regular season games GOOD for this purpose?

Do you think Oregon should get the shot because they're (probably) a lot better than their heavily-variance-influenced results should suggest? If you think ON-FIELD-PERFORMANCE is important, then on what basis do you declare on-field playoffs as "bad"? They're TOO reliant on on-field performance?

Make up your mind.

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12-06-2007 , 04:59 PM

#197

Mike Cuneo

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Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,303

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

because you cannot grasp that the playoffs only benefit teams that haven't shown themselves to be one of the best two teams after 14 weeks

it's a sanctuary for loser crybabies

yeah loser crybabies such as UNDEFEATED AUBURN, BOISE ST, UTAH, HAWAII you ****ing idiot

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12-06-2007 , 04:59 PM

#198

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

because you cannot grasp that the playoffs only benefit teams that haven't shown themselves to be one of the best two teams after 14 weeks

it's a sanctuary for loser crybabies

Why is two a "good" number? Why not just one? Why isn't LSU a loser crybaby?

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12-06-2007 , 05:01 PM

#199

Needle77

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cuneo

yeah loser crybabies such as UNDEFEATED AUBURN, BOISE ST, UTAH, HAWAII you ****ing idiot

Auburn yes. But no way in BSU, Utah, or UH. They are in the Moutain West and WAC. Do all their conference opponents use the full extent of scholarships? I know this is true in the MAC that there are a handful of schools that don't use all their scholarships. Did San Diego University deserve a bid in last years NCAA FCS playoffs? No, they got one, and were embarrassed. But they were undefeated!!

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12-06-2007 , 05:02 PM

#200

pvn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MyTurn2Raise

if you look at the Big schools and their revenue, they actually keep too small a share of the overall money

Yes, they have to give some up to prevent open revolt.

But if they actually had to earn that which they are divvying up, over time they would hold a smaller percentage than they do now.

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playoffs would be just like NCAAB, where small schools leech of the exposure and revenute big schools bring

Wait, isnt' that what you JUST SAID is happening now in bowl games?

The BCS is designed to keep the current list of "big schools" static. Throwing the scraps to the others is part of the cost of doing business.

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