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04-30-2008 , 07:21 PM

#26

bravos1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudd

All 11 can't be eligible on every single play

Sure they can. That doesn't mean that they can all run down-field routes though.

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04-30-2008 , 07:21 PM

#27

sumpy

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I don't understand how this works. I know that legal formations have 7 linemen with interior linemen being inelligible. Also, players have to be set for 1 second before the snap, so the defence should be able to see which 5 players are elligible before the snap.

Also, most leagues require specific numbers for elligible and inelligible receivers.

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04-30-2008 , 07:22 PM

#28

sumpy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos1

Sure they can. That doesn't mean that they can all run down-field routes though.

This is wrong. Interior linemen are inelligible, and there must be at least 7 linemen, so there must be 5 inelligible.

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04-30-2008 , 07:28 PM

#29

Dudd

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If there is some sort of loophole in high school rules that doesn't require 7 men on the line of scrimmage if they're in a kick formation, then I'm pretty sure the NCAA and NFL already have this covered. If they're just breaking the huddle and lining up with different receivers eligible each play, that's fine, if they're deceiving the other team by there being no way to tell who is eligible prior to the snap, that's not football.

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04-30-2008 , 07:31 PM

#30

tarheeljks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos1

Sure they can. That doesn't mean that they can all run down-field routes though.

that's the point of being eligible. ineligible receivers aren't permitted to move down the field on passing plays

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idk about college but the nfl's definition eligible receivers makes it look like no one could do this legally, although there is some ambiguity.

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04-30-2008 , 07:37 PM

#31

Dudd

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The one thing I've learned from this is that you can legally interfere with gunners on fake punt attempts. That right there would ruin most of the effectiveness of this formation, 40% of your receivers can be hit before the ball arrives.

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04-30-2008 , 07:38 PM

#32

bravos1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sumpy

This is wrong. Interior linemen are inelligible, and there must be at least 7 linemen, so there must be 5 inelligible.

yes... and by interior linemen it is basically ANY of 7 players between the ends. As long as they do not set, they remain eligible. So technically on any play they are all eligible until the set.

so yeah I worded it poorly...

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04-30-2008 , 07:40 PM

#33

sumpy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos1

But you are required to set. Otherwise it is a penalty.

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04-30-2008 , 07:40 PM

#34

tarheeljks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos1

yes... and by interior linemen it is basically ANY of 7 players between the ends. As long as they do not set, they remain eligible. So technically on any play they are all eligible until the set.

eh, i'm not sure what you mean by set, but i don't think this is true in the nfl. the way i have interpreted the rule suggests that the 5 interior players on the line are automatically ineligible.

edit: what sumpy said

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04-30-2008 , 07:41 PM

#35

Dudd

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Yeah, but you have to be set for at least a full second before the snap unless you're the one receiver in motion. So, given that it's impractical for all eleven guys to get set at exactly the same time and then snap a second later, the defense would always have a few seconds to figure out who was lined up where.

Last edited by Dudd; 04-30-2008 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Football rule nits, unite!

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04-30-2008 , 07:44 PM

#36

sumpy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudd

And even if you could time everything perfectly, the defence would still have 1 second.

(Also, in the NFL, and when I played in highschool, jersey numbers had to correspond to elligible and inelligible receivers. If you had the wrong number, you had to report to the ref before the play, and he would inform the other team. Basically this means that which players are elligible must be declared well before the play. I guess this is not the rule in california.)

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04-30-2008 , 07:48 PM

#37

bravos1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudd

They could just do what (crap who was it?? Dallas??) used to do in the past where all of their linemen used to stand and "reset" right before the snap.

They could all lineup, audible to the desired scheme and say "set" or whatever and then snap the ball. The D would have little time to react.

Understand that I think this is not a very good offensive scheme to run...

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04-30-2008 , 07:51 PM

#38

Dudd

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I think they got around the jersey rule by lining up in a scrimmage kick formation, since you often have tight ends and linebackers lining up as lineman in order to improve your coverage skills, you don't have to have lineman wearing lineman numbers.

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04-30-2008 , 07:54 PM

#39

jogsxyz

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The rules for a forward pass.

The offensive team must have 7 men on the line. Only the two men on the ends are legible for a pass. If a team attempts a trick play they must notify the officials.

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04-30-2008 , 07:56 PM

#40

bravos1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sumpy

And even if you could time everything perfectly, the defence would still have 1 second.

one sec to react in this manner is basically negligible

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.
(Also, in the NFL, and when I played in highschool, jersey numbers had to correspond to elligible and inelligible receivers. If you had the wrong number, you had to report to the ref before the play, and he would inform the other team. Basically this means that which players are elligible must be declared well before the play. I guess this is not the rule in california.)

Actually, I think there is no jersey rule because of the "scrimmage kick" formation. They do not technically have any offensive linemen. Even the "center" which is really just a "long snapper" becomes eligible in this formation. A long snapper is not required to wear any specific number.

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04-30-2008 , 07:57 PM

#41

bravos1

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Originally Posted by Dudd

bah.. you beat me to it...

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04-30-2008 , 10:11 PM

#42

SMIGLET

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unless your 2 qbs are vick and vy, this offense would get absolutely raped in the nfl

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04-30-2008 , 10:55 PM

#43

bravos1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SMIGLET

unless your 2 qbs are vick and vy, this offense would get absolutely raped in the nfl

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04-30-2008 , 11:10 PM

#44

vhawk01

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SMIGLET

unless your 2 qbs are kurt warner and dan marino, this offense would get absolutely raped in the nfl

imo

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04-30-2008 , 11:39 PM

#45

BillNye

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Even if this was legal and was effective no NFL team would ever run it, you would have to change your whole roster over just to expierement and no NFL Owner is going to give the ok on this new HC [cuz no current ones know how to run it] to do that.

Also lets say you do change your whole roster, then bam it's banned 2 weeks later.

This scheme is no different from a spread, the team is good and very talented to it makes it look good. There are hundreds of gimmick offenses that work at high school level, this one just has a website.

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05-01-2008 , 12:19 AM

#46

bravos1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BillNye

I agree w/ most of this, but no team would ever just change their offensive scheme for this... but I imagine that one could add it to one of their formations.

Imagine... 1st and 10, you're down by 1 w/ 50 seconds left on your opponents 35 yard line. You run this offense out there and they have to use their last timeout because they are like WTF???

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05-01-2008 , 01:00 AM

#47

Needle77

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Does anyone have idea where I can get my hands on film of this in action? I mean legit game film. I want to see it and see if i can suggest this to my head coach as a gimmick formation.

Edit: I e-mailed them and they have yet to get back to me.

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05-01-2008 , 01:03 AM

#48

SMIGLET

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos1

Imagine... 1st and 10, you're down by 1 w/ 50 seconds left on your opponents 35 yard line. You run this offense out there and they have to use their last timeout because they are like WTF???

legit idea actually, prob just run a screen if they dont call TO