Info at Full Tilt :
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/de/prohibited_programs.php


Players may not use databases that include hand histories from hands that they did not personally participate in. This includes large subscription databases, and "hand swapping" with other players. Players who use such databases are deemed to be gaining an unfair advantage over their opponents and will have their accounts closed permanently. Any outstanding balance in their account will be forfeited and used to compensate the victims.

Any Pokersites where we still can Datamine ?

You have no idea what PT3/HM do do you?

He certainly want to say that he don't need PT3 or HM anymore because datamining is not allowed anymore on FTP.

Is this a joke? Since when can I not data mine on FTP?

see the recent FTP answers thread in Internet gambling forum.

As yet it is unclear the degree of how datamining is a bannable offence on FTP, but they have changed their "prohibited software" page to include datamining-like terminology. And one of the big dataminers in the MSNL FTP regs thread had his accounts closed a wekk ago or so

I think it is safe to say if you datamine to the extent you need multiple play money accounts in addition to your real money account, you are on thin ice and should proceed with caution.

time will tell I suppose...

Are you talking about Storman or was there another person?

I think Spade Eye is allowed so doing your own datamining is fine. You just aren't allowed to mine every table and sell the HHs like HHBD or HHSmithey.

Storman - I think so, name rings a bell. Was he behind one of the hh subscription services?

The FTP site has this to say:

it remains quite ambiguous whether personal datamining is in breach of this, if reading to the letter it certainly is, since your database would then contain hands you did not personally participate in - although such personally datamined databases are not explicitly described, they are likely far more extensive than a database generated from "hand swapping" with another player - so who knows

FTP dataminers need hope FTP Doug clarifies exactly what is and is not allowed - until that point, there is reason to at least be aware of this (potential) change imo.

This is the scary part. Seems a little extreme. Hopefully they'll at least issue warnings first.

Their software writes the observed HH files for any open tables for you, they are aware PT/HEM will import observed hands and those two programs are generally accepted as approved. So they practically facilitate it. So i dont think they will be taking any rash actions towards players that have done this, if they do disallow it they will make it very obvious b/c they understand how many ppl are doing it and i would think modify the software to stop writing those observed hands.

the way it is worded, at this point you should start a new database and make sure you dont import any hands in which you dont play.

the rule is not only against datamining, but its against any database that ever datamined.

Using PT3 while playing and using the hud while playing is not a problem correct?

Off course not.

How can they check this?

If someone has appropiate secured his comp, FT cant see his hud.

see please also :http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...85/index7.html


Quote:
My point is that they just changed their TOS. Everyone on 2+2 is aware of datamining on FTP, so I assume that FTP staff must have also been aware of it.
I guess they could start by seizing the funds of most of the pros from the poker training sites since almost all of them datamine on FTP before making a video.

So spadeit is forbidden on ftp now?

No, as long as you just use data gathered while you were playing.

As there is no way for FT to see how many hands you have in your hud it's a unenforcable rule.
Especially if you have software running that avoids other software from seeing your screen or hooking your keyboard.

This is like trying to enforce a "1 person per hand" rule online.

As long as their software saves observed HHs to your hard drive, it's ridiculous for them to be like "um yeah YOU BETTER NOT IMPORT THOSE." I'm pretty sure the update to the prohibited programs list was simply intended to outlaw mining services that e-mail you hands every day.

i don't even understand how they can prohibit these...or find out a user is paying for a service like this..unless they shutdown the method these services are using to mine the hands...

got this reply concerning datamining

Just curious... How does a site like FTP determine whether you are using a datamining software for that purpose alone? e.g. You have 12 tables open 24/7 even when not playing?

and another reply to why they have changed their stance regarding datamining:


I'm not sure how they would detect this, but i do know im done with datamining on FTP.

There dont even inform there Customer about the rule change for there site .
I dont recive a e-mail , or comes up a popup what say , please read the new rules.

FT .........good by....and good luck

How could they ever know if u ever using a datamined db ?

I have to agree with goofyballer here. It's really easy for them to not save observed hands to the disk. Until they take that step, they can't seriously tell us what we can do with the hands beyond not sharing them with others.

Exactly. I mean other than noticing we have 20 tables open all the time observing there's really no way of telling if we are using a db with observed hands in it or not. Surely they will stop writing those files before they start enforcing this rule... but i wouldn't count on any common sense from FTP.