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What to do with top 2? 1/2 PL What to do with top 2? 1/2 PL

12-07-2008 , 11:22 AM
We're playing a 1/2 PL HOE game at our local B&M. It's 6 handed, and the villian in this hand is only playing because all of the 1/2 NL Hold 'Em games are full, and he's waiting for his seat there. Says he's never played Omaha or O8 before.

Villian has 220
I have 320

There are two limpers, and I limp the button AKT5 (terrible?). Villian is to my immediate left in the SB, and he makes it 11. We all call, so there's 55 in the pot preflop.

Flop comes KT3 with two diamonds - and villian insta-pots it. My read is that he's got aces here (only because he's a hold 'em guy). Everyone else folds. I don't have any diamonds, fwiw. What's the play?
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12-07-2008 , 11:48 AM
Put him all in. As far as AKT5 goes I would probably raise coming in in your spot as long as the A or K was suited and if not I might limp along if the table was passive. If the table wasnt very passive I would just fold it.
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12-07-2008 , 12:03 PM
Put him all-in, if you think he has AAxxyou are ahead and there are lots of scare cards that may make you throw away the best hand or kill your action, either is bad.
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12-07-2008 , 08:10 PM
no free cards--- allin.. limp preflop is ify, i tend to raise alil more and on button, esp if vs people who never play the game, because i assume they play bad postflop,
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12-07-2008 , 08:45 PM
I'd prolly flat call in position.. if i was oop I'd cr him.
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12-07-2008 , 10:48 PM
I ended up putting him all-in. He hemmed and haw'd, and did eventually call with AAxx with the nut diamond draw.

I dodged the diamond and actually hit running fives to make an unnecessary full house to scoop the pot.

Thanks for the responses, it just felt like I was putting in a lot of action and wanted to make sure it was the right play.
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12-07-2008 , 11:04 PM
I don't like pushing in this spot.

You *know he has AAxx, and you don't have a flush draw. The PF bet of course smells like aces, but he would be smart enough to not just blindly pot again with naked aces against a whole table and OOP. He either has KKxx and not AAxx or he has a draw or two. Since you have a king and AQTx or AQT9 aren't often part of a newb's raising range, I think you can rule out the straight draws. At the very least, the flush draw is in his range and you don't have a flush draw at all, let alone the nut flush.

Although I like to gamble too, you're basically coinflipping here against an opponent you know to be inferior. Pushing mught be slightly +EV but IMO you're going to find yourself in much better spots and you have very little at risk here. Fold>push>>flat, and it's very player dependent.
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12-07-2008 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthiness24
Fold>push>>flat, and it's very player dependent.
Why do you hate flatting here?
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12-08-2008 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthiness24
I don't like pushing in this spot.

You *know he has AAxx, and you don't have a flush draw. The PF bet of course smells like aces, but he would be smart enough to not just blindly pot again with naked aces against a whole table and OOP. He either has KKxx and not AAxx or he has a draw or two. Since you have a king and AQTx or AQT9 aren't often part of a newb's raising range, I think you can rule out the straight draws. At the very least, the flush draw is in his range and you don't have a flush draw at all, let alone the nut flush.

Although I like to gamble too, you're basically coinflipping here against an opponent you know to be inferior. Pushing mught be slightly +EV but IMO you're going to find yourself in much better spots and you have very little at risk here. Fold>push>>flat, and it's very player dependent.
Your argument for folding here is that you are are flipping vs the top part of his range not counting sets. I agree if he showed aces and dimes after betting I wouldnt be happily shoving my money in but I think narrowing his range down that much is a big mistake.

Last edited by fdsty; 12-08-2008 at 02:56 AM.
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12-08-2008 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthiness24
I don't like pushing in this spot.

You *know he has AAxx, and you don't have a flush draw. The PF bet of course smells like aces, but he would be smart enough to not just blindly pot again with naked aces against a whole table and OOP. He either has KKxx and not AAxx or he has a draw or two. Since you have a king and AQTx or AQT9 aren't often part of a newb's raising range, I think you can rule out the straight draws. At the very least, the flush draw is in his range and you don't have a flush draw at all, let alone the nut flush.

Although I like to gamble too, you're basically coinflipping here against an opponent you know to be inferior. Pushing mught be slightly +EV but IMO you're going to find yourself in much better spots and you have very little at risk here. Fold>push>>flat, and it's very player dependent.
I appreciate the thoughts.

The thought of KK also crossed my mind, but since I held a king, I decided that if I was going to get hit with that kind of a cooler, so be it. Also didn't think he'd be willing to insta-pot with a broadway wrap...if he even knew what that was (not saying that to be mean, but he just didn't really know Omaha at all). So, I was willing to discount that. That left just the AA or diamonds (or both).

I do agree about your last paragraph though that maybe I should have waited for a better spot to get my money in against that type of player, rather than shoving for a flip.
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12-09-2008 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdsty
Your argument for folding here is that you are are flipping vs the top part of his range not counting sets. I agree if he showed aces and dimes after betting I wouldnt be happily shoving my money in but I think narrowing his range down that much is a big mistake.
Kind of. We're flipping against any aces and any flush draw, or a flush draw and a straight draw. And there's always a chance we're crushed, but I like and stick with OP's read. If villain is as bad as OP thinks at this game, I fold, let him think he accomplished something with his aggro play, and wait for a better spot.

I don't like flatting because I think it's weak. What will you do on the turn? It's harder for you to improve than for villain.

If villain is a decent, I usually push because I do think there's a small edge in it. Plus you have more fold equity against someone who can play. The poster above is right that I'm only considering part of villain's range.
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12-09-2008 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdsty
Your argument for folding here is that you are are flipping vs the top part of his range not counting sets. I agree if he showed aces and dimes after betting I wouldnt be happily shoving my money in but I think narrowing his range down that much is a big mistake.
I think you're right against a skillful player. But I'm willing to give up this small edge now if I think villain is going to stick around long enough for me to get a bigger edge.
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12-09-2008 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthiness24
I think you're right against a skillful player. But I'm willing to give up this small edge now if I think villain is going to stick around long enough for me to get a bigger edge.
FWIW, I assume he's leaving the second his NLHE seat opens up, which could be whenever.
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12-10-2008 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mufa
FWIW, I assume he's leaving the second his NLHE seat opens up, which could be whenever.
That was his intention, yes. However, after I stacked him - he re-bought, someone else busted him, and his BR was gone.

Actually kind of felt bad for the guy, because he got it in pretty good against me and got it in pretty good in his other AI, and was busto in less than an hour.
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12-10-2008 , 09:34 PM
Move in. is this a trick question?
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