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PL25 - got troubles with A233 PL25 - got troubles with A233

02-03-2010 , 07:46 PM
Hello

That's my first post after long long break (there wasn't much of them before, but whatever...).

And here comes hand of the night. I was little tired and lost big few minutes before so this could have impact on me.

Villians here are mix of donators (especially preflop raiser) and "semi-regs".

Preflop is standard.
On the flop I've decided to call with bare low draw. Pot was quite big and implied odds looked nice.
Should I raise and try to push out other low-drawers??
Maybe fold??
Turn card was bad, but UTG+1 bet was small that I couldn't resist to call
And then it happens BTN raised, 2 players called. What now??
Should I call with my low draw?? I have counterfeit protection and very very small chance to scoop if one of two remaining treys will come. But is it enough??

Did I played it well, bad or completely f*d up?





Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $1.55
MP2: $59.85
Hero (CO): $24.65
BTN: $22.85
SB: $6.10
BB: $23.55
UTG: $27.95
UTG+1: $24.30

UTG+1 posts a big blind ($0.25)

Pre Flop: ($0.60) Hero is CO with 3 3 2 A
UTG raises to $1.10, UTG+1 calls $0.85, MP1 calls $1.10, MP2 calls $1.10, Hero calls $1.10, BTN calls $1.10, 2 folds

Flop: ($6.95) K 7 6 (6 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $3, MP1 calls $0.45 all in, MP2 calls $3, Hero calls $3, BTN calls $3, UTG calls $3

Turn: ($22.40) 6 (6 players - 1 is all in)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $3.25, MP2 folds, Hero calls $3.25, BTN raises to $18.75 all in, UTG calls $18.75, UTG+1 calls $15.50, Hero raises to $20.55 all in, UTG calls $1.80, UTG+1 calls $1.45 all in

River: ($102.45) K (5 players - 4 are all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $102.45
MP1 shows Qh Tc Kh 9h (HI: three of a kind, Kings)
Hero shows 3c 3s 2h Ad (HI: two pair, Kings and Threes)
BTN shows 6d 4h 8d 5h (HI: three of a kind, Sixes - lower kicker)
UTG shows 2d Qd As Js (HI: a pair of Kings)
UTG+1 shows 8s 6h Td 9s (HI: three of a kind, Sixes)
Hero wins $0.70
UTG+1 wins $4.35
UTG+1 wins $85.20
MP1 wins $9.20
(Rake: $3.00)
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 07:51 PM
I think your playing for 1/4 of the pot when the money went in. I would maybe raise the flop? At the same time I am not sure another a2 is folding. This is a prime example why naked lows are trouble
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 07:57 PM
You were priced in the whole way and lost. There wasn't much you could do because of pot size and position. There's no spot where a raise could have won you the pot. Best you could do was fold your naked low on the flop I suppose. But that's a pretty weak play. Just have to take your medicine on this one IMO.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 08:05 PM
I agree with OneWhoShanks. I think you are almost always playing for 1/4th of the pot here.

Side note post-spoilers: I can't believe UTG didn't check raise flop.

2nd side note post-spoilers: This table seems profitable, un-tilt and play on in my opinion.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 08:19 PM
I don't mind the flop peel with all the nut draws accounted for on the lo side, but I think you should muck the turn when no lo comes.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qter
Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 8 players

MP1: $1.55
MP2: $59.85
Hero (CO): $24.65
BTN: $22.85
SB: $6.10
BB: $23.55
UTG: $27.95
UTG+1: $24.30

UTG+1 posts a big blind ($0.25)

Pre Flop: ($0.60) Hero is CO with 3 3 2 A
UTG raises to $1.10, UTG+1 calls $0.85, MP1 calls $1.10, MP2 calls $1.10, Hero calls $1.10, BTN calls $1.10, 2 folds
I think this raise is a serious mistake. How are you going to scoop? Making a set of threes plus the nut low is about the only way. Occasionally you might three-quarter an unpaired A2xx but often you will get 3/4'd. Same applies if you make a wheel.

You want to keep the pot as small and as multiway as possible. Your hand does very poorly heads up.

Quote:
Flop: ($6.95) K 7 6 (6 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $3, MP1 calls $0.45 all in, MP2 calls $3, Hero calls $3, BTN calls $3, UTG calls $3
Folding is the best play here. Calling is second-best; by calling you're hoping to catch a 2 or 3, and win half the pot, which will show a small profit. Any other low card and you're getting quartered. Plus, someone might raise after you call.

Quote:
Turn: ($22.40) 6 (6 players - 1 is all in)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $3.25, MP2 folds, Hero calls $3.25, BTN raises to $18.75 all in, UTG calls $18.75, UTG+1 calls $15.50, Hero raises to $20.55 all in, UTG calls $1.80, UTG+1 calls $1.45 all in
Very easy fold here, about 70% of the time you lose, and about 30% of the time you get your money back plus a few dollars.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens
I think this raise is a serious mistake. How are you going to scoop? Making a set of threes plus the nut low is about the only way. Occasionally you might three-quarter an unpaired A2xx but often you will get 3/4'd. Same applies if you make a wheel.
Huh? Hero didn't raise pre-flop or on the flop. Hero does "raise" on the turn, but he is basically just calling (he raises because to call doesn't quite put him AI).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens
You want to keep the pot as small and as multiway as possible. Your hand does very poorly heads up.
He did this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens
Folding is the best play here. Calling is second-best; by calling you're hoping to catch a 2 or 3, and win half the pot, which will show a small profit. Any other low card and you're getting quartered. Plus, someone might raise after you call.
I'll debate this with you. ANY LO card in the deck gives hero the nut lo with c-fit protection still working for him and will allow him to shove. The only way hero can be c-fit for the lo is with 2 running cards 2-3, A-2, etc. which is extremely unlikely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens
Very easy fold here, about 70% of the time you lose, and about 30% of the time you get your money back plus a few dollars.
I agree hero should fold the turn, but peeling the flop wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. Seems you missed some of the key elements of Hero's hand - like the fact that he has the lo draw locked up basically.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-03-2010 , 10:45 PM
since it is 3 way how often do his opponents have A2 as well?
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-04-2010 , 12:46 AM
Sorry, misread that he wasn't the preflop raiser. Calling preflop is OK where he actually did.

It's pretty likely that another A2xx is out, so making the low is just going to lose more money. We'd be praying for an ace or deuce, and hope nobody else has A3 or 23 respectively. Also, the action indicates that other low cards are out, so it will be very common that we don't even get a low card at all.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-04-2010 , 02:33 PM
Thanks for your answers.

I really should have fold that turn when facing this $3.25 bet.
But what about later call??
Pot is about $75, I have to call about $16 more and I have 25 outs to make my low (some of them are obviously dead).
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-04-2010 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qter
Thanks for your answers.

I really should have fold that turn when facing this $3.25 bet.
But what about later call??
Pot is about $75, I have to call about $16 more and I have 25 outs to make my low (some of them are obviously dead).
I think once you have to decided on the turn to call any bet, you are committed for your stack. Don't be foolish in ever thinking you have 25 outs here. I'd guessimate with 6 players taking the flop you have something like 15-20 outs best case and many of them are going to also make someone else the nut lo.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-04-2010 , 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wackjob
I think once you have to decided on the turn to call any bet, you are committed for your stack. Don't be foolish in ever thinking you have 25 outs here. I'd guessimate with 6 players taking the flop you have something like 15-20 outs best case and many of them are going to also make someone else the nut lo.
Well, then the number of "unknown cards" that can make up the stub is a lot smaller too.

Maybe you're saying that the probability of rivering a low is similar to the probability of rivering a 15-20 outer with any of 44 unknown cards in the stub (i.e., 34%-45%).

Just for grins, if we figure that each flop opponent has, what?, an expectation of 2.5 low cards each then we've removed 20 cards from the stub and 12.5 of them are low cards. So now we have a 52% chance of a low card instead of 56%.

Maybe my 2.5 low cards per hand is off. I think too hard about card elimination, but at PL25 people are capable of playing stuff like KQ97 and JJ95, and of course just one reasonable high-card hand could throw off the numbers.

As a shortcut I'm just pretending it's a certainty to get quartered. Rarely you won't get quartered (more likely if an A or 2 falls, if there are any left). I'm figuring that the card elimination offsets the possible half-pot, and just computing as though I'm drawing at a certain quarter.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote
02-05-2010 , 02:37 AM
I might fold the flop here It's close, Situational spot. As played I couldn't fold the turn fast enough.

Last edited by _UM; 02-05-2010 at 02:44 AM.
PL25 - got troubles with A233 Quote

      
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