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NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop

07-19-2009 , 11:06 PM
I'm not always sure what the best way of playing these kinds of hands (top & bottom pair, 32 low draw) out-of-position. Two separate people claimed this was horrible, with the Button being especially vociferous...since he would have won half the pot if he didn't fold. I want to make sure i'm not missing something.

Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $158.90
BTN: $72.00
SB: $98.40
Hero (BB): $44.00
UTG: $150.25
UTG+1: $195.55
MP1: $77.00
MP2: $204.50

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with 5 3 2 Q
5 folds, BTN calls $2, SB calls $1, Hero checks

Flop: ($6.00) 5 Q 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $6, SB calls $6, Hero raises to $42 all in, BTN folds, SB calls $36

Turn: ($96.00) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($96.00) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $96.00
SB shows 4 3 5 6 (HI: a straight, Seven high; LO: 7,6,5,4,3)
Hero shows 5 3 2 Q (HI: two pair, Queens and Fives)
SB wins $46.50
SB wins $46.50
(Rake: $3.00)

----

My hope from my squeeze check-raising was that either to win it right away (maybe 20% of the time...SB used the Time Bank before calling) or to get head-up vs. one of the opponents (60% of the time). If both opponents seemed committed on the Flop, i would have check-folded.

My guess was that i had the current best hand for high and that my low draw was probably better than the SB's, if not both. Regardless, if i got heads up, my opponent wasn't likely to have me in trouble for both high and low.

My play was pretty standard, right? I got one of the results i wanted on the Flop. Any other ideas (other than don't play with only 22xBB)?
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-19-2009 , 11:09 PM
i would reriase the flop 100bb deep --- so obv i would do it here, pretty standard
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-19-2009 , 11:47 PM
Well you're a favourite against a lot of hands, including the one the other guy had. He only has 3 outs for the scoop. Dont see why you shouldn't get all in here.
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 12:57 AM
this is nicely played.. but why are you playing with 22 BBs?
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaqalicious
this is nicely played.. but why are you playing with 22 BBs?
+1. Nothing less than 55BB on a 1/2.
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaqalicious
this is nicely played.. but why are you playing with 22 BBs?
Because i multitable and tend not to prefer not needing to think much. This hand would be much more difficult with 50+ BBs.

I usually min-buy-in until i'm through the blinds/post and then up my stack to a whopping 25-30xBB. I won't leave just because i get to 70-100xBB (unless the table starts getting short-handed, too). I'll buy-in for more in order to cover certain opponents. I'm beginning to get more comfortable with deeper stacks, but under normal conditions i still prefer playing more tables of shorter stacks.

Anyway, would anyone here play the hand i posted by leading out (assuming your stack was at least as deep as mine)? If yes, would you still do so if you were first to act?
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 03:48 AM
I am leading this flop a good percentage of the time, if the BTN will stab at alot of pots IP I would probably lean towards the CR. Having it checked through puts you in a tough spot on the turn as there a very few cards your are fist-pumping about. Keep it simple and lead looking to get it in on the vast-majority of turn cards.
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 07:19 AM
I don't like a lead into a rainbow board w/ two low cards and multiple opponents. I think we have little to no fold equity with a lead and our hand is too marginal to play on most turns when we're OOP.

If we're ahead of their ranges, it's not by much. A big check raise verse a button that takes stabs in position a high percentage of the time may be +EV but at the same time after a bet and a call I don't think folding is much of mistake if it is even a mistake at all.

I'm check/raising sometimes and check/folding sometimes and generally check folding a lot of turns if I whiff the check/raise.
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliasUnrise
I don't like a lead into a rainbow board w/ two low cards and multiple opponents. I think we have little to no fold equity with a lead and our hand is too marginal to play on most turns when we're OOP.

If we're ahead of their ranges, it's not by much. A big check raise verse a button that takes stabs in position a high percentage of the time may be +EV but at the same time after a bet and a call I don't think folding is much of mistake if it is even a mistake at all.

I'm check/raising sometimes and check/folding sometimes and generally check folding a lot of turns if I whiff the check/raise.
Nit.
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londolozi
I am leading this flop a good percentage of the time, if the BTN will stab at alot of pots IP I would probably lean towards the CR. Having it checked through puts you in a tough spot on the turn as there a very few cards your are fist-pumping about. Keep it simple and lead looking to get it in on the vast-majority of turn cards.
How much would you lead for?

I make a pot-sized lead out-of-position and get called (which is often the case), i'd be in an even worse position on the Turn. Now there's a bigger pot and i have no idea if that scary Turn card hit my opponent(s) or not. If i shove the Turn, the opponent(s) can fold if he missed and call if he hit. If i check the Turn and he bets, i again have little idea where i am. My opponent(s) would be getting great implied odds.

Open shoving, risking 21 BBs to win 3 BBs doesn't make sense since i'm (probably) only going to be called when i'm significantly behind.

By getting it all-in heads-up on the Flop, i'm normally ahead in at least one direction. As this hand played out, there was an extra 3xBB of dead money in the pot, which was nice.

Yes, by checking, i risk giving a free card that i'm normally going to hate. At that point, i'm not likely to get too involved in the pot. However, the pot isn't worth much of anything (3 BBs).

I realize that aside from the River, this hand played out about as well as possible (67% equity, which is slightly better than if the SB folded on the Flop). I thought my play was pretty standard, but i wanted to make sure i wasn't missing a different approach.
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliasUnrise
I don't like a lead into a rainbow board w/ two low cards and multiple opponents. I think we have little to no fold equity with a lead and our hand is too marginal to play on most turns when we're OOP.

If we're ahead of their ranges, it's not by much. A big check raise verse a button that takes stabs in position a high percentage of the time may be +EV but at the same time after a bet and a call I don't think folding is much of mistake if it is even a mistake at all.

I'm check/raising sometimes and check/folding sometimes and generally check folding a lot of turns if I whiff the check/raise.
^^
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote
07-20-2009 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85off
i would reriase the flop 100bb deep --- so obv i would do it here, pretty standard
If I were 100BB deep here, wouldn't you lead out vs check-raise?
NL <img / - Medium 2-way hand OOP vs. 2 opps on Flop Quote

      
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