They've just started up a full ring (9 handed) 4/8 Limit O8 with half kill game at my local card room. It only runs three days a week and I've played it a few times as a change of pace from limit hold'em. The O8 game is half populated by a crew of old (70's+) nits and half by a younger gambling crowd that just wants action. The game is really passive and full of players making mistakes. A couple of the players will consistently bet and raise the low and in my last session twice got shown 3 of a kind in the hole where the player miraculously caught their case card.

I used to goof around on-line playing nickel/dime O8 way back when, but my knowledge of this game is pretty scarce. So just after commenting to one of the players that having three of a kind is an automatic fold, I get As, Ac, Ah, 2s in the sb. It's a kill pot (so playing 6/12) and it's 6 limpers to me in the sb -

Do you complete?

Assuming that the board is favourable to a low - is this the one kind of low that you would raise? Given the virtual lock on having the best low and the diminished chances of splitting the low I thought (at the time) that it was a situation where I could drive more action.

Am I wrong? Missing something here?

Apologize in advance because this is such a basic question, but as mentioned, I don't have a lot of experience playing O8.

If everyone is calling anyway, I think I'm raising for value in this game, and I don't think it's close. Some would just call, but I think that's crazy talk.

I know you're blocking your own ace, but you have blockers to any other nut now except one, and you can make a flush. If you crap out on the flop it's easy to get away from.

In the game you describe, folding this hand is unimaginable. You should call two bets cold with this hand, let alone complete the small blind.

You should raise with the low much of the time, especially if you have a high hand, and in this type of game where people are overvaluing their hands. You might be surprised by what ends up winning for high. Being quartered isn't a big deal in limit, and your bets break even if there are 4 or more people in the pot.

In general shutting down with the low is actually a bad habit to get into, especially in a loose game. There are times when it will be super-obvious that you're quartered, but many others where you pick up chips you never thought you'd get.

you have good poker sense.

flop well and jam. . .flop bad and get out.

Definately complete with this hand + play nut lows aggressively in these loose games. If you somehow get heads up with one of the nitty old men, your Aces might even wind up getting you 3 quarters of the pot. And, wow, its sooooted, so thats a top feature.

Also, as Todd says, you don't buy a dog because of its cute bark, and then tell it to stop barking because it annoys you. If you wanna keep the game good, don't tell your sources of funds the secrets to not being your source of funds, eg "trips are bad", "you're such a donk" etc. Its also really bad ettiquette, its their money, let them play their game and enjoy it. Treat suckers like royalty on and off the table, except when it comes to saying "check", "bet", "raise", "take it", and "i call", and throwing your cards into the muck when the time is right. Chat to them, be nice, buy them a drink. It will pay for itself after all. Who knows, maybe they'll come back and play with you next time, they might even come to your home game.

I probably raise. I'm not ever folding this for one bet before the flop. Note that one of the aces is suited to the deuce.
Your question is too vague for me to give a good answer. What I mean is the exact flop cards and propensities of opponents matter.
The chance of an opponent having ace-deuce is reduced a factor slightly less than three times, from about 40% to about 15%. Something of that order. Here's the math:

• 3*3*39*38/2 to 1*3*41*40/2
  6669/2460 = 2.7

Sort of. What to do, in my humble opinion, depends on how your opponents will react to what you do. (I realize that's vague general advice when you really want more specific directions - but I cannot honestly tell you what I would do here myself without knowing the exact cards involved in the flop and also without knowing more about the opponents involved).

Buzz

This is good advice that we should all re-read.

Another point i think is really crucial is that how aggressive you play your nut low should depend on your position relative to bets that have been made, or indeed if it has been checked to you. Also it depends on how aggressive the players behind you are.

If you're first to bet and or it has been checked to you, then you want to bet it, unless you strongly believe (as in, like 80%+ sure) that the player to your immediate left is going to bet (and there is a multiway field behind him). The safest option is always to lead out, but in some situations a checkraise is basically twofold more profitable.

Eg, you limped utg pre, loose utg +1 raised, the whole table called (lol), and you called, and you flopped the nut low with backup and some high draw/made hand. You know he's gonna bet, the guy always reaches for chips when the flop comes when he wants to bet, and there's a whole table of salivating gamblers waiting for that bet. So, this is that spot I just talked about. He bets, the whole table calls, and oh, wow you basically creamed your pants, because now you KNOW you got them ALL for two bets instead of one. Had you led out, that guy would've raised, and now all of a sudden BOOM some of them gamblers wisened up and would rather take their two small bets worth $8 elsewhere, and you lost a lot of profit, because some of those guys who folded probably would've thought "wow big pot" on the turn and saw the river (incorrectly) after you got the checkraise in. The variation to this situation is that the PFRer 3 bets your checkraise, which is fine, because you get the dead money from the checkraise, and even maybe a couple of stragglers still hang on, and before you know it, there's 120 bucks sitting there on the river, to which you will get half minimum. This game is the best! Well, except High Low Split no qualifier.

But the situation totally changes when the guy in front of you bet but there is still a whole table behind you. This is such a horrible situation, you dont know whether to laugh or cry. Like I said before, if its made two bets before the 3rd man has a look in, thats really ugly. But, there is much to be gained from knocking off the competition. So situation dependant! I like to just call and hope that aggressive players in the back will raise, or I at least get overcalls. On a loose table, that is what happens. On a tight table, I would just pop it, because most likely you make the same amount getting overcalls as you do by popping the original bettor (2-3 to a flop is the common tight table situation), or worse, you make less, because the other guy folds it.

When it is bet and there is calls in front of you, thats sweet, you've got men in the middle. So you should raise and get them in for at least one more bet. Calling would make you miss out on so much! Getting loads of bets in when you have the most information is never a bad thing. Be disgruntled if in the cutoff and the button calls when you pop it (god, i basically puke every time that happens)

All of these situations show how being in early position has such a bad effect on what decisions you take, take a careful look, examine, look for it. You see it, right?

This advice will apply most to the flop round, but can definately be applied on the turn and river (although you would be exercising more discretion later in the hand with more information if you have divulged that a quarter is the troublesome end for you).

Helpful?

Last thing, definately want to be clarifying that in 90% of all poker situations, leading out with a bet is generally more profitable and lets not forget more efficient than checkraising. So keep those checkraises to being a scarcity, or you might find that people start slapping their reaching right hand when you check to them.

I would only over play this hand in a kill pot to hopefully get it heads up with the blind or some other caller. Remember though, this hand is crap if a deuce comes out in the flop...

Many thanks for replies, and for the added advice. I appreciate your thoughts. Cheers!